Discussion:
Gaining Weight Back: Statistics? Citations?
(too old to reply)
The Masster
2008-06-30 23:59:12 UTC
Permalink
Hi;
Over the years I have seen dismal statistics quoted about how people
who successfully lose weight gain it back within one year or 5 years.
I am preparing a web site on this issue. I've been looking for the
exact 1 year and 5 years statistics on the web with little luck. I
see many quoted stats that don't agree with each other, stats with
OLD citations, and stats with no citations.
Can anyone point to statistics about how many people gain what % of
last weight back by 1 year and by 5 years.......AS WELL AS reasonably
current citations for those stats?
Thanks much in advance for that information!
Steve
Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 1999 Dec;23(12):1314-9

The prevalence of weight loss maintenance among American adults.McGuire MT,
Wing RR, Hill JO.
University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, PA, USA. ***@epi.umn.edu


BACKGROUND: Previous studies suggest that few individuals achieve long-term
weight loss maintenance. Because most of these studies were based on
clinical samples and focused on only one episode of weight loss, these
results may not reflect the actual prevalence of weight loss maintenance in
the general population. DESIGN: A random digit dial telephone survey was
conducted to determine the point prevalence of weight loss maintenance in a
nationally representative sample of adults in the United States. Weight
loss maintainers were defined as individuals who, at the time of the
survey, had maintained a weight loss of > or =10% from their maximum weight
for at least 1 y. The prevalence of weight loss maintenance was first
determined for the total group (n = 500), and then for the subgroup of
individuals who were overweight (body mass index BMI > or =27 kg/m2 at
their maximum (n = 228). RESULTS: Weight loss was quite common in this
sample: 54% of the total sample and 62% of those who were ever overweight
reported that they had lost > or =10% of their maximum weight at least once
in their lifetime, with approximately one-half to two-thirds of these cases
being intentional weight loss. Among those who had achieved an intentional
weight loss of > or =10%, 47-49% had maintained this weight loss for at
least 1 y at the time of the survey; 25-27% had maintained it for 5 y or
more. Fourteen percent of all subjects surveyed and 21% of those with a
history of obesity were currently 10% below their highest weight, had
reduced intentionally, and had maintained this 10% weight loss for at least
1 y. CONCLUSIONS: A large proportion of the American population has lost >
or =10% of their maximum weight and has maintained this weight loss for at
least 1 y. These findings are in sharp contrast to the belief that few
people succeed in long-term weight loss maintenance.

******
Am J Clin Nutr. 1997 Aug;66(2):239-46

A descriptive study of individuals successful at long-term maintenance of
substantial weight loss.Klem ML, Wing RR, McGuire MT, Seagle HM, Hill JO.
University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, PA 15213, USA.


The National Weight Control Registry (NWCR) is, to the best of our
knowledge, the largest study of individuals successful at long-term
maintenance of weight loss. Despite extensive histories of overweight, the
629 women and 155 men in the registry lost an average of 30 kg and
maintained a required minimum weight loss of 13.6 kg for 5 y. A little over
one-half of the sample lost weight through formal programs; the remainder
lost weight on their own. Both groups reported having used both diet and
exercise to lose weight and nearly 77% of the sample reported that a
triggering event had preceded their successful weight loss. Mean (+/-SD)
current consumption reported by registry members was 5778 +/- 2200 kJ/d,
with 24 +/- 9% of energy from fat, Members also appear to be highly active:
they reported expending approximately 11830 kJ/wk through physical
activity. Surprisingly, 42% of the sample reported that maintaining their
weight loss was less difficult than losing weight. Nearly all registry
members indicated that weight loss led to improvements in their level of
energy, physical mobility, general mood, self-confidence, and physical
health. In summary, the NWCR identified a large sample of individuals who
were highly successful at maintaining weight loss. Future prospective
studies will determine variables that predict continued maintenance of
weight loss.

*****

Annu Rev Nutr. 2001;21:323-41.

Successful weight loss maintenance.Wing RR, Hill JO.
The Miriam Hospital, Brown University, Providence, Rhode Island 02906, USA.
***@Lifespan.org


Obesity is now recognized as a serious chronic disease, but there is
pessimism about how successful treatment can be. A general perception is
that almost no one succeeds in long-term maintenance of weight loss. To
define long-term weight loss success, we need an accepted definition. We
propose defining successful long-term weight loss maintenance as
intentionally losing at least 10% of initial body weight and keeping it off
for at least 1 year. According to this definition, the picture is much more
optimistic, with perhaps greater than 20% of overweight/obese persons able
to achieve success. We found that in the National Weight Control Registry,
successful long-term weight loss maintainers (average weight loss of 30 kg
for an average of 5.5 years) share common behavioral strategies, including
eating a diet low in fat, frequent self-monitoring of body weight and food
intake, and high levels of regular physical activity. Weight loss
maintenance may get easier over time. Once these successful maintainers
have maintained a weight loss for 2-5 years, the chances of longer-term
success greatly increase.

*****

Int J Behav Nutr Phys Act. 2006 Jul 19;3:17

Dietary and physical activity behaviors among adults successful at weight
loss maintenance.Kruger J, Blanck HM, Gillespie C.
Physical Activity and Health Branch, Division of Nutrition and Physical
Activity, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, Georgia,
USA. ***@cdc.gov


BACKGROUND: There is limited population-based data on behavioral factors
found to be important for successful weight loss maintenance among adults.
METHODS: Data from the 2004 Styles surveys, mailed to U.S. adults aged > or
= 18 years were used to examine the difference in selected weight loss
strategies and attitudes among persons who reported successful weight loss
attempts (lost weight and able to keep it off) and persons who were not
successful (previous attempts to lose weight were unsuccessful or they
could not keep the lost weight off). Behaviors examined included
modification of diet, leisure-time and sports activities, and
self-monitoring, and barriers to weight management. RESULTS: Among adults
who reported losing weight or trying to lose weight, 31.0% had been
successful at both losing weight and maintenance after weight loss.
Successful weight loss status differed by sex, age, and current weight
status. Assessment of reported weight loss strategies, found that
exercising > or = 30 minutes/day and adding physical activity to daily life
were significantly higher among successful versus unsuccessful weight
losers. Individuals who were successful at weight loss and maintenance were
less likely to use over-the-counter diet products than those who were
unsuccessful at weight loss. Significantly more successful versus
unsuccessful weight losers reported that on most days of the week they
planned meals (35.9% vs. 24.9%), tracked calories (17.7% vs. 8.8%), tracked
fat (16.4% vs. 6.6%), and measured food on plate (15.9% vs. 6.7%).
Successful losers were also more likely to weigh themselves daily (20.3%
vs. 11.0%). There were a significantly higher proportion of successful
losers who reported lifting weights (19.0%) versus unsuccessful (10.9%).
The odds of being a successful weight loser were 48%-76% lower for those
reporting exercise weight control barriers were influencing factors (e.g.,
no time, too tired to exercise, no one to exercise with, too hard to
maintain exercise routine) compared to those who reported little or no
influence of exercise; similarly, the odds were 48-64% lower for those who
found certain dietary barriers to be influential (e.g., eat away from home
too often, diet/health food costs too much). CONCLUSION: Self-monitoring
strategies such as weighing oneself, planning meals, tracking fat and
calories, exercising 30 or more minutes daily, and/or adding physical
activity to daily routine may be important in successful weight loss
maintenance. Leisure-time activities such as lifting weights or
cooking/baking for fun are common strategies reported by those who were
successful weight losers.

******

Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 1998 Jun;22(6):572-7

McGuire MT, Wing RR, Klem ML, Seagle HM, Hill JO.
University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, PA 15213, USA.


OBJECTIVE: To evaluate whether individuals who lost weight on their own (n
= 447), through organized programs (n = 313) or with liquid formula (n =
133) would differ in the strategies they used to maintain their weight
losses. DESIGN: All subjects were members of the National Weight Control
Registry, had lost > or = 13.6 kg (30 pounds), and kept it off at least one
year (mean weight loss = 30.1+/-14.9 kg and mean duration of maintenance =
5.7+/-6.9 y). RESULTS: Liquid Formula users differed from the other two
groups on many characteristics; they were more likely to be women, older,
heavier, and to have had a medical disorder prior to weight loss. To
maintain their weight loss, the Liquid Formula group reported greater use
of dietary strategies (for example, counting calories, limiting the amount
of calories from fat) and higher dietary restraint. Liquid Formula users
reported that weight maintenance was more difficult than losing weight,
whereas individuals who lost weight on their own reported the reverse. The
On Own group reported expending a higher percentage of calories through
strenuous activities such as running and weight lifting, and reported
weighing themselves more frequently to maintain weight loss. Despite these
behavioral differences, all three groups are maintaining their weight
losses similarly by eating a low calorie diet (5792.3 kJ/d and 25% of daily
calories from fat) and engaging in high levels of physical activity
(11847.3 kJ/week). CONCLUSIONS: Despite using different methods to lose
weight, individuals who lost weight on their own, through an organized
program, or with a liquid formula, use similar behavioral strategies to
maintain their weight loss.

*****

Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2001 Mar;25(3):325-31

Weight-loss maintenance in overweight individuals one to five years
following successful completion of a commercial weight loss program.Lowe
MR, Miller-Kovach K, Phelan S.
Department of Clinical and Health Psychology, MCP Hahnemann University,
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19102, USA. ***@drexel.edu


OBJECTIVE: To determine weight loss maintenance among participants in a
commercial weight loss program (Weight Watchers) who had reached their goal
weights 1-5 y previously. DESIGN: A national sample (n=1002) was surveyed
by phone to obtain demographic and weight-related information. An
oversample (n=258) was recruited and weighed in person to develop a
correction factor for self-reported weights in the national sample.
RESULTS: Based on corrected weights, weight regain from 1 to 5 y following
weight loss ranged between 31.5 and 76.5%. At 5 y, 19.4% were within 5 lb
of goal weight, 42.6% maintained a loss of 5% or more, 18.8% maintained a
loss of 10% or more, and 70.3% were below initial weight. CONCLUSIONS:
These results are not directly comparable to those obtained in clinical
settings because of differences in the populations studied. Nonetheless,
they suggest that the long-term prognosis for weight maintenance among
individuals who reach goal weight in at least one commercial program is
better than that suggested by existing research.


*****
Lady Veteran
2008-07-01 12:47:09 UTC
Permalink
On 30 Jun 2008 23:59:12 -0000, ***@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam
(The Masster) wrote:
This is a dizum. Ignore it.

LV-posted from SSFA

"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."

---Sympathy for the Devil-The Rolling Stones
--------------------------------------------
"A fanatic cannot change his mind and will not
change the subject."

---Winston Churchill
----------------------------------------------
Tired of being harassed on Usenet? Join my group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/antiCHU
"I am mad as hell and I will not take it anymore!"

---Network

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The Master
2008-07-01 16:14:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Masster
CONCLUSIONS: A large proportion of the American population has lost >
or =10% of their maximum weight and has maintained this weight loss for at
least 1 y.
OOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... A whole year...

I've already said that I COULD lose weight. But the moment I stop
counting calories, the moment I stop working my ass off in the gym, it
comes back. How is the success rate of 2 years? 5 years? 10 years?
DB
2008-07-01 17:41:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Master
Post by The Masster
CONCLUSIONS: A large proportion of the American population has lost >
or =10% of their maximum weight and has maintained this weight loss for at
least 1 y.
OOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... A whole year...
I've already said that I COULD lose weight. But the moment I stop
counting calories, the moment I stop working my ass off in the gym, it
comes back. How is the success rate of 2 years? 5 years? 10 years?
If you have a temporary solution like a diet where you count calories , the
result will be temporary!

What it all comes down to is a lifestyle in terms of what you are fueling
your body with.
The Master
2008-07-01 18:40:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by DB
Post by The Master
I've already said that I COULD lose weight. But the moment I stop
counting calories, the moment I stop working my ass off in the gym, it
comes back. How is the success rate of 2 years? 5 years? 10 years?
If you have a temporary solution like a diet where you count calories , the
result will be temporary!
What it all comes down to is a lifestyle in terms of what you are fueling
your body with.
Lifestyle? Ok, what "lifestyle change" must take place? Let me guess,
healthy eating, and exercise. Sorry, but that's exactly what you already
said is a temporary fix... Get the problem? The only way to have long
lasting weight loss is to constantly stick with it. Simply calling it a
"lifestyle change" doesn't alter the fact that it's simply a glorified
diet and exercise plan.
DB
2008-07-02 01:37:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Master
Post by DB
Post by The Master
I've already said that I COULD lose weight. But the moment I stop
counting calories, the moment I stop working my ass off in the gym, it
comes back. How is the success rate of 2 years? 5 years? 10 years?
If you have a temporary solution like a diet where you count calories , the
result will be temporary!
What it all comes down to is a lifestyle in terms of what you are fueling
your body with.
Lifestyle? Ok, what "lifestyle change" must take place? Let me guess,
healthy eating, and exercise. Sorry, but that's exactly what you already
said is a temporary fix... Get the problem? The only way to have long
lasting weight loss is to constantly stick with it. Simply calling it a
"lifestyle change" doesn't alter the fact that it's simply a glorified
diet and exercise plan.
Staying healthy is a lifetime commitment!

We were not designed to sit around and eat shit all day.

If eating bowls of Sugar flakes or pop tarts for breakfast got me fat, why
would I return to eating that crap once I lost the weight thru better
eating?
Lady Veteran
2008-07-02 02:59:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by DB
Post by The Master
Post by DB
Post by The Master
I've already said that I COULD lose weight. But the moment I stop
counting calories, the moment I stop working my ass off in the gym, it
comes back. How is the success rate of 2 years? 5 years? 10 years?
If you have a temporary solution like a diet where you count calories , the
result will be temporary!
What it all comes down to is a lifestyle in terms of what you are fueling
your body with.
Lifestyle? Ok, what "lifestyle change" must take place? Let me guess,
healthy eating, and exercise. Sorry, but that's exactly what you already
said is a temporary fix... Get the problem? The only way to have long
lasting weight loss is to constantly stick with it. Simply calling it a
"lifestyle change" doesn't alter the fact that it's simply a glorified
diet and exercise plan.
Staying healthy is a lifetime commitment!
It also seems to be a license to ridicule others, according to some.
Post by DB
We were not designed to sit around and eat shit all day.
We are not designed to talk shit all day either.

LV-posted from SSFA

"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."

---Sympathy for the Devil-The Rolling Stones
--------------------------------------------
"A fanatic cannot change his mind and will not
change the subject."

---Winston Churchill
----------------------------------------------
Tired of being harassed on Usenet? Join my group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/antiCHU
"I am mad as hell and I will not take it anymore!"

---Network

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
The
2008-07-02 03:16:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lady Veteran
Post by DB
Post by The Master
Post by DB
Post by The Master
I've already said that I COULD lose weight. But the moment I stop
counting calories, the moment I stop working my ass off in the gym, it
comes back. How is the success rate of 2 years? 5 years? 10 years?
If you have a temporary solution like a diet where you count calories , the
result will be temporary!
What it all comes down to is a lifestyle in terms of what you are fueling
your body with.
Lifestyle? Ok, what "lifestyle change" must take place? Let me guess,
healthy eating, and exercise. Sorry, but that's exactly what you already
said is a temporary fix... Get the problem? The only way to have long
lasting weight loss is to constantly stick with it. Simply calling it a
"lifestyle change" doesn't alter the fact that it's simply a glorified
diet and exercise plan.
Staying healthy is a lifetime commitment!
It also seems to be a license to ridicule others, according to some.
Post by DB
We were not designed to sit around and eat shit all day.
We are not designed to talk shit all day either.
The Official Lady Veteran FAQ v1.16

1. What is Lady Veteran's real name?
2. What does Lady Veteran look like?
3. Are Lady Veteran's teeth really that brown?
4. Lady Veteran will claim that picture was altered. What say you?
5. Did Lady Veteran have her car repossessed?
6. Is Lady Veteran really a serial beggar?
7. Does Lady Veteran use pay day loans?
8. What is Lady Veteran's height and weight?
9. What is Lady Veteran built like?
10. Is Lady Veteran a lesbian?
11. Does Lady Veteran have her own newsgroups?
12. Did Lady Veteran really live in a cheap, extended stay motel?
13. Does Lady Veteran take things to real life with people who disagree
with her?
14. Was Lady Veteran turned down to foster chihauhaus?
15. Is Lady Veteran so broke that she could not fix her computer for over 3
months when it crashed?
16. Is Lady Veteran really diseased?
17. Why was Lady Veteran kicked out of the Army?
18. Is Lady Veteran a racist?
19. What does Lady Veteran think of Air Force pilots?
20. Is Lady Veteran, despite being a lesbian, homophobic?
21. Lady Veteran is a net loon. Is she also insane in real life?
22. Was Lady Veteran forging Jean C?
23. Where does Lady Veteran work?
24. Was Lady Veteran evicted from her apartment?
25. Lady Veteran is barely literate. Was she trying to sell writing
services under the alias of 'Wordsmith'?
26. Is Lady Veteran a neo Nazi?
27. Lady Veteran contacted Google not to archive her posts, yet she brands
those who use "no archive" headers as "cowards". Is this hypocritical?
28. Did Lady Veteran receive her degree from a "diploma mill"?
29. Why does Lady Veteran have such a difficult time composing a coherent
sentence, especially since she runs a business called "The Wordsmith"?
30. Has Lady Veteran won Usenet's coveted 'Kook of the Month' award?
31. How can I get in contact with Lady Veteran?



1. What is Lady Veteran's real name?

Bobbi Sanchez

2. What does Lady Veteran look like?

http://fatreality.netfirms.com/blobbi.htm

3. Are Lady Veteran's teeth really that brown?

Yes.

4. Lady Veteran will claim that picture was altered. What say you?

LV will claim that the picture was altered, but only the name tag was
added. LV used to have the original picture posted on her personal web
site at http://profiles.yahoo.com/lady_veteran . It was taken down after a
dentist was shocked by the color of her teeth (Message-ID:
<***@4ax.com> ). LV subsequently replaced
the picture to avoid further embarrassment.

5. Did Lady Veteran have her car repossessed?

Yes. Message-ID:
<***@lp.airnews.net>#1/1

From: Lady Veteran <***@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: A question
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 17:19:38 -0600
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
Newsgroups: soc.support.fat-acceptance
Post by Lady Veteran
It was she who disclosed that her car was repossessed because she did not
make the payments.
In a legal newsgroup seeking legal advise...you left out that part.

6. Is Lady Veteran really a serial beggar?

Yes. Not only did she beg a priest for money to pay her rent (Message-ID:
<***@lp.airnews.net>#1/1),
she also posted a message on NAAFA's web board and created a Geocities web
site for the sole purpose of begging for money for her war on trolls.

7. Does Lady Veteran use pay day loans?

Yes. Message-ID:
<***@lp.airnews.net>#1/1

8. What is Lady Veteran's height and weight?

5' 6 1/2", 240 pounds.

Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

9. What is Lady Veteran built like?

Like a wrestler, according to LV herself.

Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

10. Is Lady Veteran a lesbian?

Apart from her unfeminine looks and Usenet behavior, LV admits to wearing
men's pants ( Message-ID:
<***@4ax.com>#1/1).

11. Does Lady Veteran have her own newsgroups?

Yes.

alt.blobbi.veteran-cunt
alt.fan.boar-semen.blobbi-sanchez
alt.fan.boar-semen.blobbi-sanchez.aka
alt.fan.boar-semen.blobbi-sanchez.aka.aka.lady-veteran

12. Did Lady Veteran really live in a cheap, extended stay motel?

Yes. Note her personal profile posted at
http://www.bestjobsus.com/bt-empd-armyvet.htm . This address is for the
Budget Suites of America.

From: Lady Veteran <***@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: CNN: Tired of slights, embarrassment, man sheds 87 pounds
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:48:22 -0600
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
Newsgroups:
soc.support.fat-acceptance,misc.fitness.weights,alt.support.diet,alt.suppor
t.diet.low-carb
Post by Lady Veteran
You were homeless and using the cheap motel address to conduct business.
Er, no. I was living in a one-bedroom suite owned by the hotel. Not
homeless, fuckwit. People who live in hotels live in a home of their
own making and you cannot change that.

<end quote>

13. Does Lady Veteran take things to real life with people who disagree
with her?

Yes. As financially distressed as she is, LV paid a private investigator
$500 to track down a 20 year old Canadian named Marty who was besting her
with their every encounter. LV later took things to real life with Jim
Dutton and contacted his employer. LV's mission is to take things to real
life with anyone who disagrees with her, assuming she can track the person
down.

LV re-affirms that she will continue to stalk people who post from work as
she did with Jim Dutton.

From: Lady Veteran <***@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Bobbi, Robin, others=read.
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:42:36 -0600
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
Newsgroups:
soc.support.fat-acceptance,alt.fucknozzles,soc.singles,alt.usenet.kooks,alt
troll
Post by Lady Veteran
Let's get to the facts here. You netKKKop Jeem for posting from work, then
your headers show you doing the same. The postings that you made from your
workplace were forwarded to your employer, just like you did to Jeem. Now
you're whining that you are a victim of stalking? ROTFLMAO!!!!
Yes I did. I will do it again and again and again to you or any other
fuck that tries it. Want to dare me?

<end quote>

14. Was Lady Veteran turned down to foster chihauhaus?

Yes. Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

Barbara Richardson the so-called moderator of DFW Cares just denied me
for a member because she said I lied about not getting a home visit
from Chihuahua Rescue. I have been waiting for a home for going on two
years now so I can foster Chihuahuas. I am still waiting.

Apparently The moderator has her own notions about what is right and
wrong and doesn't bother to check facts!

<end quote>

15. Is Lady Veteran so broke that she could not fix her computer for over 3
months when it crashed?

Yes. Message-ID: <010d01c265d6$9467ea00$***@MAIN>

16. Is Lady Veteran really diseased?

Yes. She suffers from lupus and boils. LV probably has some
co-morbidities associated with obesity as well.

17. Why was Lady Veteran kicked out of the Army?

Speculation surrounds her lesbianism.

18. Is Lady Veteran a racist?

Yes. Quoting from Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
:

The lower half of 1 black man is worth 10 complete white men. When
I fuck I like MEN, not little sissyboys that have to talk from
behind their mommy's skirt.

I lova da bothas:-)

<end quote>

Quoting from Message-ID:
<news:***@lp.airnews.net>

You talk about the Asian is very gifted. You should follow their
example by being polite,



AND QUIET!!!!!!!!!!

<end quote>
Post by Lady Veteran
I live in Dublin and I'd agree with that study. Plenty of fatties
waddling around here.
So are you sure you just aren't alcohol-challenged and are seeing
double. I thin you have pickled what passed for a brain in your empty
head-and your empty head is as empty as your shorts.

<end quote>

Quoting from Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

Unfortunately most of the idiots here happen to male Anglo-Saxon idiots.

<end quote>

From: Lady Veteran <***@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Invitation for Bobbi
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 22:25:09 -0600
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
Newsgroups: soc.support.fat-acceptance

Yes 9 out 10 idiots are Caucasian males between 13 and 25. That is the very
group that will triple auto insurance rates for the rest of us when they
reach 16.

<end quote>

From: Lady Veteran <***@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: How many of the readers her ...
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 18:24:44 -0600
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
Newsgroups: soc.support.fat-acceptance

They screwed it up anyway. I said that most if the idiots bothering me
are white Caucasians who are between 13 and 25.

I am willing to wager that males in that other age group belonging to
other racial families have better things to do.

<end quote>

From: Lady Veteran <***@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Why Are American Women So Fat And Ugly?
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:58:48 -0500
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
Newsgroups:
soc.men,soc.support.fat-acceptance,alt.support.divorce,alt.support.marriage
,soc.culture.jewish

Awwww, you say that like it is a bad thing. I bet you are jealous as
hell and are in some third world idiocracy calling the USA the great
Satan.

Your turban is WAAAAAY to tight.

LV

<end quote>

From: Lady Veteran <***@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: MSN Money: What if no one were fat?
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 19:30:43 -0500
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

There are many Aryan wannabes in SSFA.

<end quote>

From: Lady Veteran <***@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: REPOST: When Trolls, Flame Wars and Cyber-Rage go too Far
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 19:54:28 -0500
Post by Lady Veteran
Then why dd you write several posts speaking negatively about whites?
You have yet to offer an explanation for yourself.
OH.....saying that most of the trolls here are white boys under 21?
You know why that people of color do not spend time poking sticks. In
some cases, it could purely financial-they may not have their own
computer. Another reason could be that their parents raised them
better. Yes that is anti parent-not anti whit you shit eating whore.

<end quote>

When pressed on how she could discern a person's race from their writing
style, Lady Veteran failed to respond.

Racist and sexist.

19. What does Lady Veteran think of Air Force pilots?

Lady Veteran is on the record stating that Air Force pilots are cowards.
Quoting from Message-ID:
<***@lp.airnews.net>

They are most definitely cowards if they can't call a person fat to
their face and reap the benefits their comments so richly deserve.
BTW, I don't find hotshot pilots so brave. They fly up above the war
and could care less where their bombs fall. If they cared, maybe there
would be less war.

<end quote>

20. Is Lady Veteran, despite being a lesbian, homophobic?

Yes.

Quoting from Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

Well when you get to the sigmoidoscopy just tell him that he is going
where no man has gone before...LOL!!

The idiots on this group sure can't say that.

<end quote>

From: Lady Veteran <***@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Whoooeee! Lookit this porker.
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:19:32 -0500
Post by Lady Veteran
Guys who say they like fat women are the ones who have never had a hot
chick. This is how they rationalize their lack of quality trim.
You couldn't keep up with a gay man on your best day bubba. Who the
hell are you kidding?

<end quote>

From: Lady Veteran <***@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Please limit comments ref LV
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 21:55:22 -0500
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

Another delusional fool who thinks a pecker will solve everything.
Fuckfaces like you are the reason there are lesbians.

<end quote>

21. Lady Veteran is a net loon. Is she also insane in real life?

Yes. In Lady Veteran's own words:

From: ***@airmail.net (Bobbi Sanchez)
Subject: Jacque champion's Best Friend
Date: 1998/11/09
Message-ID:
<***@library-proxy.airnews.n
et>#1/1
Newsgroups: dfw.flame


I am trying to locate a lady named Terri who used to be a friend of
Jacque champion (mainden name Krippen). Both were involved in the
psychic community and Jacque is an experienced Tarot reader. She has
told people that Terri is languishing in some mental asylum and has
probably killed herself. I need to compare notes with Terri because
Jacque is saying the same thing about me.

<end quote>

22. Was Lady Veteran forging Jean C?

Yes. Proof was posted in Message-ID:
<***@Gilgamesh-Frog.org>

23. Where does Lady Veteran work?

Lady Veteran is currently unemployed after being terminated, due to either
her Usenet postings or poor job performance, by the MMC Group.

MMC Group
105 Decker Court, Suite 150
Irving, Texas 75062

Phone: 972-893-0100
www.mmcgrp.com

24. Was Lady Veteran evicted from her apartment?

From: Lady Veteran <***@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: A question
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 17:19:38 -0600
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
Newsgroups: soc.support.fat-acceptance
Post by Lady Veteran
It was she that disclosed the she was evicted from her dwelling because
she did not
pay the rent.
No one else in the entire universe has ever been evicted due to job
layoff except fir me...

<end quote>

25. Lady Veteran is barely literate. Was she trying to sell writing
services under the alias of 'Wordsmith'?

Yes. Lady Veteran posted this advertisement on Usenet:

Wordsmith Services and Pricing
www.georicites.com/***@sbcglobal.net

Resumes (1-2 pages)
$35.00
Resumes (additional pages - including addendums)
$10.00
Cover Letters
$10.00
Envelopes
$5.00
Mailing
ask for pricing
Dossiers
$25.00
Business Cards (50 cards)
$15.00
Brochures
$40.00
Websites (design only)
$100.00
Reports/Term Papers Composition
$50.00
Reports/Term Papers Typing only
$25.00
Research
$20.00 per hour
Personal letters composition
$25.00
Personal Letters typing only
$10.00
Bumper Stickers
$1.50


August Special!!! Get a free custom bumper sticker with each order. Good
until august 31, 2004
Payment can be made by cash or credit card, no checks please
A 50%payment is due at beginning of assignment with balance due prior to
delivery.


Thanks!
We look forward to working with you.
The Wordsmith at your service.
We look forward to hearing from you

<end quote>

Quoting Gumshoe McFindy : "[note the creative spelling of geocities.
Typo's aren't usually a good sign in someone who fancies themself a
linguist...HTH]"

26. Is Lady Veteran a neo Nazi?

Yes. At least she aspires to be one.

From: Lady Veteran <***@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Bobbi Sanchez of esoftsolutions.com makes another death
threat.
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:03:20 -0600
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

How many swastikas can I draw on your forehead before I run out of
ammo, sock puppet?

<end quote>

27. Lady Veteran contacted Google not to archive her posts, yet she brands
those who use "no archive" headers as "cowards". Is this hypocritical?

Yes, of course it is. This is not the only area where she displays blatant
hypocrisy.

28. Did Lady Veteran receive her degree from a "diploma mill"?

Lady Veteran's degree came from Academy International of Santa Barbara,
California. This school has no website, no listed phone number, no
references from alumni, and above all, there is now a chiropractor's office
at Academy International's last known address.

29. Why does Lady Veteran have such a difficult time composing a coherent
sentence, especially since she runs a business called "The Wordsmith"?

She has made various excuses, "dyslexia" being the latest.

From: Lady Veteran <***@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: po'folks loans?
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 10:19:31 -0500
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
Newsgroups:
soc.support.fat-acceptance,soc.singles,alt.usenet.kooks,dfw.general,austin.
general
Post by Lady Veteran
She writes at about the the level of a 4th grade student.
Jan
I do not need to justify anything to you, skanky, but since you asked
so nicely...I have a form of dyslexia.

<end quote>

30. Has Lady Veteran won Usenet's coveted 'Kook of the Month' award?

Yes. Lady Veteran swept several awards in April, 2008.

KOOK OF THE MONTH
CLUELESS NEWBIE OF THE MONTH
COWARD OF THE MONTH

Congratulations, Lady Veteran!

31. How can I get in contact with Lady Veteran?

Home phone: 972-447-2109
Work phone: unemployed
Mobile number: 972-786-6275
Personal email: ***@bigfoot.com or ***@yahoo.com or
***@gmail.com
Work email: unemployed
Employer: unemployed
Employer website: unemployed
Lady Veteran
2008-07-02 17:01:12 UTC
Permalink
If you are going to print something, STALKER-do it right!

Path:
g2news1.google.com!news1.google.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: ***@LVFAQ.com (The Oracle)
Newsgroups:
soc.support.fat-acceptance,dfw.general,soc.singles,misc.fitness.weights
Subject: The Official Lady Veteran FAQ (Bobbi Sanchez)
Date: 30 Dec 2004 06:52:23 -0000
Organization: Thrasher - The Anonymous Remailer
Lines: 179
Message-ID: <***@reece.net.au>
X-Trace: individual.net
rcSYdasnR+OO0WoIPmnp5Qo7G4LMz/2Cr46xHGeYKM/rip1yM=
Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address
above.
It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer
software.
Please report problems or inappropriate use to the
remailer administrator... <***@reece.net.au>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you think that if they really wanted to bring me down that they
would want to be CREDIBLE? I would if I actually believed that what
they said was true.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
X-Remailer-Contact: ***@reece.net.au

The Official Lady Veteran FAQ v0.91

1. What is Lady Veteran's real name?
2. What does Lady Veteran look like?
3. Are Lady Veteran's teeth really that brown?
4. Lady Veteran will claim that picture was altered. What say you?
5. Did Lady Veteran have her car repossed? (this bastard can't spell
either)
6. Is Lady Veteran really a serial beggar?
7. Does Lady Veteran use pay day loans?
8. What is Lady Veteran's height and weight?
9. What is Lady Veteran built like?
10. Is Lady Veteran a lesbian?
11. Does Lady Veteran have her own newsgroup?
12. Does Lady Veteran really live in a cheap, extended stay motel?
13. Does Lady Veteran take things to real life with people who
disagree with her?
14. Was Lady Veteran turned down recently to foster chihauhaus?
15. Is Lady Veteran so broke that she could not fix her computer for
over 3 months when it crashed?
16. Is Lady Veteran really diseased?
17. Why was Lady Veteran kicked out of the Army?
18. Is Lady Veteran a racist?
19. Where does Lady Veteran work?
20. How can I get in contact with Lady Veteran?


1. What is Lady Veteran's real name?

Bobbi Sanchez

2. What does Lady Veteran look like?

http://fatreality.netfirms.com/blobbi.htm

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a web site put up by a fool who is still being parted from her
money. I suspect a troll Named Jade, whom I consider a gossip monger
and chief sociopath. If and when I find her, I will bring charges
against her.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3. Are Lady Veteran's teeth really that brown?

Yes.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NO. This is an altered picture. Anyone who wants to see the real one
as only to ask. So far, no one is interested in the truth except for
me, I guess.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4. Lady Veteran will claim that picture was altered. What say you?

LV will claim that the picture was altered, but only the name tag was
added. LV used to have the original picture posted on her personal
web
site at http://profiles.yahoo.com/lady_veteran . It was taken down
after a dentist was shocked by the color of her teeth (Message-ID:
<***@4ax.com> ). LV subsequently
replaced
the picture to avoid further embarrassment.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the guy who is as much as a dentist as I am.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. Did Lady Veteran have her car repossed?

Yes. Message-ID:
<***@lp.airnews.net>#1/1

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now if you were reading you would think in the near recent past-right?
It actually happened in 1999. A lot has past since them. The idiots
like to make me look like an accomplished n'er do well who will not
pay her bills.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6. Is Lady Veteran really a serial beggar?

Yes. Not only did she beg a priest for money to pay her rent
(Message-ID:
<***@lp.airnews.net>#1/1),
she also posted a message on NAAFA's web board and created a Geocities
web site for the sole purpose of begging for money for her war on
trolls.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Again this happened in early 2000. Anyone can lose their job. Not that
it should matter to the sociopaths of SSFA, but I am a technical
recruiter. In early 2000, I could not get a job in my field and my
savings was evaporating very fast. Anybody can have financial hardship
but it is a crime when I have problems. Somehow I am some sort of
dregs or something or another. The site I put up in Geocities was done
during this time frame as well. I was trying to raise money to hire a
CANADIAN lawyer to bring MARTY (poor Canada-they don't want him
either.) up on charges. The reasons will become clear later.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7. Does Lady Veteran use pay day loans?

Yes. Message-ID:
<***@lp.airnews.net>#1/1

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See above. I make no apologies for being out of work when three
quarters of my colleagues were pounding the payment with me.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8. What is Lady Veteran's height and weight?

5' 6 1/2", 240 pounds.

Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I certainly make no apologies for this. Besides. Besides this post was
written in 2000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9. What is Lady Veteran built like?

Like a wrestler, according to LV herself.
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have very dense body tissue. I am what Eastern Europeans call good
sturdy peasant stock.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10. Is Lady Veteran a lesbian?
Apart from her unfeminine looks and Usenet behavior, LV admits to
wearing men's pants ( Message-ID:
<***@4ax.com>#1/1).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So wearing men's pants makes one a lesbian? That is NEW to me.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11. Does Lady Veteran have her own newsgroups?

Yes.

alt.blobbi.veteran-cunt
alt.fan.boar-semen.blobbi-sanchez
alt.fan.boar-semen.blobbi-sanchez.aka
alt.fan.boar-semen.blobbi-sanchez.aka.aka.lady-veteran

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have been so honored by Jim "pig-fucker" Dutton and Michael
Cranston. They should seriously consider removing them or there is a
good change I will own every possession these two pieces of garbage
own.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12. Does Lady Veteran really live in a cheap, extended stay motel?

Yes. Note her personal profile posted at
http://www.bestjobsus.com/bt-empd-armyvet.htm . This address is for
the
Budget Suites of America.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why can't a single woman live in an extended stay hotel? It was a nice
place and I had maid service. Had a chance to save money and start a
business that idiots promptly sabotaged. Yes these idiot owe me a
great deal.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
13. Does Lady Veteran take things to real life with people who
disagree with her?

Yes. As financially distressed as she is, LV paid a private
investigator $500 to track down a 20 year old Canadian named Marty who
was besting her with their every encounter. LV later took things to
real life with Jim Dutton and contacted his employer. LV's mission is
to take things to real life with anyone who disagrees with her,
assuming she can track the person down.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was a lot more than a disagreement as you will see. Jim Dutton was
turned in for writing porn on his IBM issued computer in his IBM
office because wifey would not let him post at home. He had a lot of
'splaining to do. I hired a PI to locate "marty' and another terrorist
named "NR." I ended up doing it myself. There was a third named
"Jackie Tokeman" that was outed by the shyster Cranston (I guess he
somehow "offended" our boar-loving lawyer.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14. Was Lady Veteran turned down recently to foster chihauhaus?

Yes, because her home was not a suitable environment according to the
rescue organization.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was turned down. I was turned down because I had one female that was
not spayed. To rescuers, that is a cardinal sin.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15. Is Lady Veteran so broke that she could not fix her computer for
over 3 months when it crashed?

Yes. Message-ID: <010d01c265d6$9467ea00$***@MAIN>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I needed to replace the computer. I guess anyone else can do that
and-- oh well. If I do-it is a national disaster.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16. Is Lady Veteran really diseased?

Yes. She suffers from lupus and boils. LV probably has some
co-morbidities associated with obesity as well.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well let's see. My last boil was a loooooooong time ago. You notice
none of these are dated? Hmmmm
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
17. Why was Lady Veteran kicked out of the Army?

Speculation surrounds her lesbianism.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now see, this idiocy is unfounded. I am not a lesbian and this is
defamation of character. I have an honorable discharge and have the
normal appetites of a normal heterosexual woman.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
18. Is Lady Veteran a racist?

Yes. Quoting from Message-ID:
<***@4ax.com>
:

The lower half of 1 black man is worth 10 complete white men. When
I fuck I like MEN, not little sissyboys that have to talk from
behind their mommy's skirt.

I lova da bothas:-)

<end quote>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This was in response to a troll named Leroy. The inference was that I
could only get black men to be interested in me and that somehow is a
bad thing. My response was not the best it could have been but it got
the point across: If black men was all I could get, then HALF of a
BLACK man was better then a whole white idiot. I had a hunch that
"LeRoy" was as black as what the KKK would allow. I was proven right
when the idiots hollered "racism!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quoting from Message-ID:
<news:***@lp.airnews.net>

You talk about the Asian is very gifted. You should follow their
example by being polite,



AND QUIET!!!!!!!!!!

<end quote>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This was, again a "white" idiot pretending to be Asian. Suspecting
this, I succeeded in insulting the white idiot-not for being white,
but for being an idiot. His race did not make him stupid. He did that
all by himself.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
19. Where does Lady Veteran work?

The Empower Network
5055 Keller Springs
Suite 550
Addison, Texas 75001

Main--972-852-4100
Direct--972-852-4112
Fax--972-759-4405
http://www.theempowernetwork.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This information was gathered by the idiot from job postings I made in
the course of doing my REAL LIFE job. This is a direct example of
stalking as far as I am concerned and encouraging others to do the
same.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20. How can I get in contact with Lady Veteran?

Home phone: xxxxxxxxxx
Work phone: xxxxxxxxxx
Mobile number: xxxxxxxxxx
Personal email: ***@bigfoot.com
Work email: ***@theempowernetwork.com

_______________________________________________________________
END OF FAQ

LV-posted in SSFA

"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."

---Sympathy for the Devil-The Rolling Stones
--------------------------------------------
"A fanatic cannot change his mind and will not
change the subject."

---Winston Churchill
----------------------------------------------
Tired of being harassed on Usenet? Join my group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/antiCHU
"I am mad as hell and I will not take it anymore!"

---Network

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
SneakyP
2008-07-02 23:24:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by The
2. What does Lady Veteran look like?
http://fatreality.netfirms.com/blobbi.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------- This is a web site put up by a fool who is
still being parted from her money. I suspect a troll Named Jade, whom
I consider a gossip monger and chief sociopath. If and when I find
her, I will bring charges against her.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
Fixated on Jade, I see.
--
SneakyP
To reply: newsgroup only, what's posted in ng stays in ng.

Some choose to swim in the potty bowl of nan-ae rather than flush it
down :0)
Dave U. Random
2008-07-03 10:25:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lady Veteran
Post by DB
Post by The Master
Post by DB
Post by The Master
I've already said that I COULD lose weight. But the
moment I stop
Post by Lady Veteran
Post by DB
Post by The Master
Post by DB
Post by The Master
counting calories, the moment I stop working my ass off in
the
Post by Lady Veteran
Post by DB
Post by The Master
Post by DB
Post by The Master
gym, it comes back. How is the success rate of 2 years?
5 years?
Post by Lady Veteran
Post by DB
Post by The Master
Post by DB
Post by The Master
10 years?
If you have a temporary solution like a diet where you count calories , the
result will be temporary!
What it all comes down to is a lifestyle in terms of what
you are
Post by Lady Veteran
Post by DB
Post by The Master
Post by DB
fueling your body with.
Lifestyle? Ok, what "lifestyle change" must take place?
Let me
Post by Lady Veteran
Post by DB
Post by The Master
guess, healthy eating, and exercise. Sorry, but that's
exactly what
Post by Lady Veteran
Post by DB
Post by The Master
you already said is a temporary fix... Get the problem?
The only
Post by Lady Veteran
Post by DB
Post by The Master
way to have long lasting weight loss is to constantly stick
with it.
Post by Lady Veteran
Post by DB
Post by The Master
Simply calling it a "lifestyle change" doesn't alter the
fact that
Post by Lady Veteran
Post by DB
Post by The Master
it's simply a glorified diet and exercise plan.
Staying healthy is a lifetime commitment!
It also seems to be a license to ridicule others, according to some.
Post by DB
We were not designed to sit around and eat shit all day.
We are not designed to talk shit all day either.
We are not designed to look like shit all day either.
Lady Veteran
2008-07-03 20:16:56 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 12:25:42 +0200 (CEST), Dave U. Random
Another dizum. Ignore it.
LV-posted in SSFA

"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."

---Sympathy for the Devil-The Rolling Stones
--------------------------------------------
"A fanatic cannot change his mind and will not
change the subject."

---Winston Churchill
----------------------------------------------
Tired of being harassed on Usenet? Join my group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/antiCHU
"I am mad as hell and I will not take it anymore!"

---Network

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
SneakyP
2008-07-03 21:23:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lady Veteran
On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 12:25:42 +0200 (CEST), Dave U. Random
Another dizum. Ignore it.
LV-posted in SSFA
Another dumdum. Ignore it.

LoonVee-posted in SSFA
--
SneakyP
To reply: newsgroup only, what's posted in ng stays in ng.

Some choose to swim in the potty bowl of nan-ae rather than flush it
down :0)
The Master
2008-07-02 15:36:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by DB
Staying healthy is a lifetime commitment!
And I'd rather be fat. If I wanted to eat bean spouts and work my ass off
at the gym, I'd already be doing it...

I can lose weight working out, I can lose weight by dieting. I'm willing
to bet that every regular non-troll in the fat-acceptance group has done
it time and time and time again.

Now I can't speak for them, but I wouldn't "falter and keep trying", but
instead give it up because it wasn't worth it. Too much damn work. It's
not fun, it's not enjoyable, it's not even "work". It was nothing more
then torture.

If I have to eat tofu, bean sprouts, cabbage, carrots, lean skinless
chicken breasts, and horken fiber chunks, while working out 2 hours three
times a week, just so I can live to be 80 years old, I'd rather trade in a
number of those years so I can eat steaks and watch TV.

Longer quantity of life does NOT automatically mean higher quality. In
fact, I'd argue that 1 year of "the way I want" is worth at least 2 of
"skinny torture camp".
Post by DB
We were not designed to sit around and eat shit all day.
If I wasn't designed to sit on my ass, I wouldn't have one.
Post by DB
If eating bowls of Sugar flakes or pop tarts for breakfast got me fat, why
would I return to eating that crap once I lost the weight thru better
eating?
Because to lose the weight you have to eat stuff that tastes like
styrofoam.
Doug Freyburger
2008-07-02 16:27:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by DB
Staying healthy is a lifetime commitment!
And I'd rather be fat.  If I wanted to eat bean spouts and work my ass off
at the gym, I'd already be doing it...
I can lose weight working out, I can lose weight by dieting.  I'm willing
to bet that every regular non-troll in the fat-acceptance group has done
it time and time and time again.
And most on the 3 diet support group you listed. Who on a
diet support group hasn't dieted, lost, quit, regained at least
once? It's not the losing that matters but the keeping it off.
Now I can't speak for them, but I wouldn't "falter and keep trying", but
instead give it up because it wasn't worth it.  Too much damn work.  It's
not fun, it's not enjoyable, it's not even "work".  It was nothing more
then torture.
Would you try again if you knew there were only 3 points of
under a week where you'd be hungry? That's how low carb
works for most. Not everyone of course, just like there are
people who never get hungry on low fat, but most aren't hungry
while low carbing.
If I have to eat tofu, bean sprouts, cabbage, carrots, lean skinless
chicken breasts, and horken fiber chunks, while working out 2 hours three
times a week, just so I can live to be 80 years old, I'd rather trade in a
number of those years so I can eat steaks and watch TV.
Good thing you added the low carb support group to the
list then. Go low carb and you can eat steaks. If you limit
your portions you can get pretty close to your ideal weight
without hunger. If you don't limit your portions you can drift
down, not to your ideal weight but to maybe 10-30 pounds
above it. Low carb food is nothing like the list you wrote,
though any of them can be eaten on low carb if you want.

Exercise at least the level of 30+ minutes walking on the
flat at least every other day, not much can be done about
that. Eliminate it and you'll end up farther from ideal weight.
Dee Flint
2008-07-07 22:08:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Master
Post by DB
Staying healthy is a lifetime commitment!
And I'd rather be fat. If I wanted to eat bean spouts and work my ass off
at the gym, I'd already be doing it...
I can lose weight working out, I can lose weight by dieting. I'm willing
to bet that every regular non-troll in the fat-acceptance group has done
it time and time and time again.
Now I can't speak for them, but I wouldn't "falter and keep trying", but
instead give it up because it wasn't worth it. Too much damn work. It's
not fun, it's not enjoyable, it's not even "work". It was nothing more
then torture.
If I have to eat tofu, bean sprouts, cabbage, carrots, lean skinless
chicken breasts, and horken fiber chunks, while working out 2 hours three
times a week, just so I can live to be 80 years old, I'd rather trade in a
number of those years so I can eat steaks and watch TV.
Longer quantity of life does NOT automatically mean higher quality. In
fact, I'd argue that 1 year of "the way I want" is worth at least 2 of
"skinny torture camp".
Post by DB
We were not designed to sit around and eat shit all day.
If I wasn't designed to sit on my ass, I wouldn't have one.
Post by DB
If eating bowls of Sugar flakes or pop tarts for breakfast got me fat, why
would I return to eating that crap once I lost the weight thru better
eating?
Because to lose the weight you have to eat stuff that tastes like
styrofoam.
No you do not have to eat stuff that tastes bad. I personally do not eat
anything I don't like. These days I'm eating healthy foods, eating twice as
much as before, and feeling great and have lost 33 pounds. I still eat
"bad" foods but simply limit them to small amounts. After all that last
bite tastes no better than the first.

I'd rather be able to go walking and biking with my family and being a
healthy weight makes that possible and enjoyable.

However if all you ever want to do is sit in front of the TV, well that's
your choice.

By the way, I have steak whenever I want it. I just eat what is a
reasonable serving instead of some gigantic cut that isn't healthy.
The Master
2008-07-08 14:28:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dee Flint
However if all you ever want to do is sit in front of the TV, well that's
your choice.
Cool. Glad we had this conversation. Time to see what's on History...
Always Learning
2008-07-02 22:40:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by DB
Post by The Master
Post by DB
Post by The Master
I've already said that I COULD lose weight. But the moment I stop
counting calories, the moment I stop working my ass off in the gym, it
comes back. How is the success rate of 2 years? 5 years? 10 years?
If you have a temporary solution like a diet where you count calories , the
result will be temporary!
What it all comes down to is a lifestyle in terms of what you are fueling
your body with.
Lifestyle? Ok, what "lifestyle change" must take place? Let me guess,
healthy eating, and exercise. Sorry, but that's exactly what you already
said is a temporary fix... Get the problem? The only way to have long
lasting weight loss is to constantly stick with it. Simply calling it a
"lifestyle change" doesn't alter the fact that it's simply a glorified
diet and exercise plan.
Staying healthy is a lifetime commitment!
Aging is all of our lifetime commitment. You cannot avoid the effects
of aging especially once you get into your 70s. I love it when people
brag about how they're going to live longer than other people and then
that famous person ups and dies in their 60s. It is so very funny.
All that torture for not.
Post by DB
We were not designed to sit around and eat shit all day.
I doubt more than 200 in the world has ever eaten shit more than one
time in their life. You must be targeting that comment toward no one
here?
Post by DB
If eating bowls of Sugar flakes or pop tarts for breakfast got me fat, why
would I return to eating that crap once I lost the weight thru better
eating?
As long as you tally calories you can eat any item of food you want
and still lose and maintain your weight.

You could go on a chocolate ice cream diet if you wanted as long as
you counted those calories each day.
Same goes for a all bread diet or a all ham diet. As long as you
didn't eat more than a certain number of calories you will lose
weight.

Why eat non-carb cardboard food for life when you can enjoy a variety
of foods for life? Who would dare PLAN such a boring painful torture?

Hell, we feed prisoners better than that and a large percentage of
them are at a good weight. Yes a couple here and there are fat but
most maintain a good weight and can enjoy all kind carbs.

Why would a person plan a life to eat more painful foods than a
prisoner?

I guess some people just enjoy torturing themselves, I guess it is
some masochistic type desire.

Be well or try to.
FOB
2008-07-03 00:14:56 UTC
Permalink
Non carb cardboard food? Like steaks and chops, ham and chicken, fish and
eggs, bacon, bacon, bacon, nuts, lettuce, celery, tomatoes, peppers,
cucumbers, asparagus--with butter on it, cauliflower, nuts, heavy cream,
blueberries, strawberries, peaches, cantaloupe, shrimp, squash, cabbage,
etc. Definitely low carb, which is what the diet is, not non carb, but
definitely NOT cardboard.

Always Learning wrote:
|
| Why eat non-carb cardboard food for life when you can enjoy a variety
| of foods for life? Who would dare PLAN such a boring painful torture?
|
Always Learning
2008-07-03 17:07:36 UTC
Permalink
Hey, go ahead and fuck up your kidneys. Also watch how soon you have a
heart attack from eating literally nothing but fatty foods. You'll
like, "OMG I had no idea I was torturing myself and murdering my body
like this...I'll change this time, I promise!"

Of course you'll do what most people do and blame it on some vague set
of circumstances which in no way caused your health problems.

"That damn cell phone caused it!"
Post by FOB
Non carb cardboard food? Like steaks and chops, ham and chicken, fish and
eggs, bacon, bacon, bacon, nuts, lettuce, celery, tomatoes, peppers,
cucumbers, asparagus--with butter on it, cauliflower, nuts, heavy cream,
blueberries, strawberries, peaches, cantaloupe, shrimp, squash, cabbage,
etc. Definitely low carb, which is what the diet is, not non carb, but
definitely NOT cardboard.
|
| Why eat non-carb cardboard food for life when you can enjoy a variety
| of foods for life? Who would dare PLAN such a boring painful torture?
|
Kaz Kylheku
2008-07-03 17:57:01 UTC
Permalink
On 2008-07-03, Always Learning <***@this.time> wrote:

[ rearranged to fix idiotic top-posting ]
Post by Always Learning
Post by FOB
Non carb cardboard food? Like steaks and chops, ham and chicken, fish and
eggs, bacon, bacon, bacon, nuts, lettuce, celery, tomatoes, peppers,
cucumbers, asparagus--with butter on it, cauliflower, nuts, heavy cream,
blueberries, strawberries, peaches, cantaloupe, shrimp, squash, cabbage,
etc. Definitely low carb, which is what the diet is, not non carb, but
definitely NOT cardboard.
Hey, go ahead and fuck up your kidneys. Also watch how soon you have a
heart attack from eating literally nothing but fatty foods.
I see lots of things other than fatty foods in FOB's list. Are cabbage and
squash fatty foods? Most of the stuff looks wholesome.
Post by Always Learning
like, "OMG I had no idea I was torturing myself and murdering my body
like this...I'll change this time, I promise!"
If you eat the above foods, but within a reasonable caloric limit so that you
stay slim, nothing bad will happen.

It's overeating that murders the body.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Always Learning
2008-07-03 19:09:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kaz Kylheku
[ rearranged to fix idiotic top-posting ]
Post by Always Learning
Post by FOB
Non carb cardboard food? Like steaks and chops, ham and chicken, fish and
eggs, bacon, bacon, bacon, nuts, lettuce, celery, tomatoes, peppers,
cucumbers, asparagus--with butter on it, cauliflower, nuts, heavy cream,
blueberries, strawberries, peaches, cantaloupe, shrimp, squash, cabbage,
etc. Definitely low carb, which is what the diet is, not non carb, but
definitely NOT cardboard.
Hey, go ahead and fuck up your kidneys. Also watch how soon you have a
heart attack from eating literally nothing but fatty foods.
I see lots of things other than fatty foods in FOB's list. Are cabbage and
squash fatty foods? Most of the stuff looks wholesome.
Post by Always Learning
like, "OMG I had no idea I was torturing myself and murdering my body
like this...I'll change this time, I promise!"
If you eat the above foods, but within a reasonable caloric limit so that you
stay slim, nothing bad will happen.
It's overeating that murders the body.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Funny how you guys will FINALLY admit that counting calories is the
single most important thing you can do to lose weight.

It takes 10 years to get you to admit it though..

Gee, care to guess why calories are ALWAYS what determines ones
ability to lose weight... It's an easy answer.
Doug Freyburger
2008-07-03 18:18:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Always Learning
Hey, go ahead and fuck up your kidneys.
There are two items that demonstrate so much nutritional
ignorance about low carb they indicate the person isn't
qualified to tell a soda cracker from a bottle of wine. One
is confusing dietary ketosis with ketoacidosis. The other
is claiming low carb cuases kidney problems. Not much
point in responding to any of the rest of the rant given that
bit.
Always Learning
2008-07-03 19:11:10 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:18:59 -0700 (PDT), Doug Freyburger
Post by Doug Freyburger
The other
is claiming low carb cuases kidney problems.
Hey, only a few HUNDRED university founded studies make the claim of
low carb diets causing permanent damage to the kidneys.

But hey you're a scientist and know better.
Mxsmanic
2008-07-03 19:14:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Always Learning
Hey, only a few HUNDRED university founded studies make the claim of
low carb diets causing permanent damage to the kidneys.
Low-carb diets have no effect on the kidneys.
Always Learning
2008-07-26 21:08:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Low-carb diets have no effect on the kidneys.
Also remember Cigarette smoking does not cause cancer.
FOB
2008-07-03 20:18:31 UTC
Permalink
So cite one.

Always Learning wrote:
| Hey, only a few HUNDRED university founded studies make the claim of
| low carb diets causing permanent damage to the kidneys.
|
| But hey you're a scientist and know better.
Doug Freyburger
2008-07-03 20:28:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by FOB
| Hey, only a few HUNDRED university founded studies make the claim of
| low carb diets causing permanent damage to the kidneys.
So cite one.
Back when the 1972 edition of his book came out the AMA
put Dr Atkins through proceedings to pull his medical
license based on the kidney complaint. His defense was
simple - Truth. He challenged the AMA to come up with
even one case of someone with no prior kidney damage,
who followed the directions in his book, who came down
with kidney damage from his diet. The Dr A started waiting.
Decades later he died still waiting. He got the last laugh on
the topic.

So I'll repeat - Claims of kidney damage from low carbing is
one of the easy ways to tell that someone is so poorly
qualified to discuss diet they won't be able to tell a carrot
from an unopened can of caviar.
FOB
2008-07-03 20:15:25 UTC
Permalink
Five years in and my heart and kidneys are fine. Didn't you read the list?
Are peaches and lettuce fatty?

Always Learning wrote:
| Hey, go ahead and fuck up your kidneys. Also watch how soon you have a
| heart attack from eating literally nothing but fatty foods. You'll
| like, "OMG I had no idea I was torturing myself and murdering my body
| like this...I'll change this time, I promise!"
|
| Of course you'll do what most people do and blame it on some vague set
| of circumstances which in no way caused your health problems.
|
| "That damn cell phone caused it!"
|
|
|
Mxsmanic
2008-07-03 18:18:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by DB
If eating bowls of Sugar flakes or pop tarts for breakfast got me fat, why
would I return to eating that crap once I lost the weight thru better
eating?
What you eat isn't important to weight loss, it's only how much you eat.
Eating the healthiest food in the world will not cause weight loss if you eat
too much of it, and eating junk food will not make you fat unless you eat too
much of it.
Always Learning
2008-07-03 19:11:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by DB
If eating bowls of Sugar flakes or pop tarts for breakfast got me fat, why
would I return to eating that crap once I lost the weight thru better
eating?
What you eat isn't important to weight loss, it's only how much you eat.
Eating the healthiest food in the world will not cause weight loss if you eat
too much of it, and eating junk food will not make you fat unless you eat too
much of it.
FINALLY someone with a brain replies with science.
Mxsmanic
2008-07-03 19:14:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Always Learning
FINALLY someone with a brain replies with science.
It's an extremely simple concept; I don't understand why so few people are
willing to believe it.
FOB
2008-07-03 20:18:05 UTC
Permalink
But eating junk food makes you hungrier so it's harder to eat fewer
calories.

Mxsmanic wrote:
|
| What you eat isn't important to weight loss, it's only how much you
| eat. Eating the healthiest food in the world will not cause weight
| loss if you eat too much of it, and eating junk food will not make
| you fat unless you eat too much of it.
Mxsmanic
2008-07-03 21:53:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by FOB
But eating junk food makes you hungrier so it's harder to eat fewer
calories.
Junk food in moderation will not make you hungrier if you are in normal
health. And if you check the nutritional information on a standard McDonald's
hamburger, you'll find that there's nothing particularly bad about it to begin
with, even though it is considered "junk food."
FOB
2008-07-03 22:10:46 UTC
Permalink
I'm thinking of sugary junk food, doughnuts, cookies. I'd dumb the bun but
the burger is fine.

Mxsmanic wrote:
|
| Junk food in moderation will not make you hungrier if you are in
| normal health. And if you check the nutritional information on a
| standard McDonald's hamburger, you'll find that there's nothing
| particularly bad about it to begin with, even though it is considered
| "junk food."
Mxsmanic
2008-07-03 22:17:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by FOB
I'm thinking of sugary junk food, doughnuts, cookies. I'd dumb the bun but
the burger is fine.
Even sugary food should not cause much of a problem for healthy persons in
moderation. And there's nothing wrong with eating a bun.
FOB
2008-07-03 22:51:50 UTC
Permalink
Unless you have diabetic tendency, which includes a pretty large segment of
the population anymore.

Mxsmanic wrote:
| FOB writes:
|
|| I'm thinking of sugary junk food, doughnuts, cookies. I'd dumb the
|| bun but the burger is fine.
|
| Even sugary food should not cause much of a problem for healthy
| persons in moderation. And there's nothing wrong with eating a bun.
Mxsmanic
2008-07-03 22:56:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by FOB
Unless you have diabetic tendency, which includes a pretty large segment of
the population anymore.
Obesity is the leading cause of diabetes. If you're not fat, you're not at
much risk.
FOB
2008-07-04 00:31:02 UTC
Permalink
Heredity trumps all. And if you're dieting to lose weight, I guess that
means you are fat.

Mxsmanic wrote:
|
| Obesity is the leading cause of diabetes. If you're not fat, you're
| not at much risk.
Mxsmanic
2008-07-04 01:07:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by FOB
Heredity trumps all.
The association between NIDDM and obesity is well established. If you are not
obese and get even a modicum of exercise, you are unlikely to develop NIDDM,
heredity or not.
Post by FOB
And if you're dieting to lose weight, I guess that means you are fat.
Yes, although it doesn't mean that you are diabetic.
Fritz Wuehler
2008-07-04 00:34:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by FOB
But eating junk food makes you hungrier so it's harder to eat fewer
calories.
Junk food in moderation will not make you hungrier if you are in normal
health. And if you check the nutritional information on a standard McDonald's
hamburger, you'll find that there's nothing particularly bad about it to begin
with, even though it is considered "junk food."
What an illusion; we all can make it healthier by buyig and deep
frying ground ham, or beef, and eat with home made or store bought
mayo, and home fried fries.
Everybody know cooking burger at home is better, much much healthier
than eating in junk food restaurants.
Mxsmanic
2008-07-04 01:09:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fritz Wuehler
What an illusion; we all can make it healthier by buyig and deep
frying ground ham, or beef, and eat with home made or store bought
mayo, and home fried fries.
That's not what I said.

Nevertheless, you can eat all of these things without gaining weight as long
as you consume no more calories than you burn. Conversely, you can gain
weight eating nothing but tofu and alfalfa sprouts if you each too much of
them.
Post by Fritz Wuehler
Everybody know cooking burger at home is better, much much healthier
than eating in junk food restaurants.
There really isn't much difference. And from a weight-control standpoint,
there's no difference at all.
m***@hotmail.com
2008-07-28 19:11:31 UTC
Permalink
On 3 juil, 22:09, Mxsmanic <***@gmail.com> wrote:
"Conversely, you can gain weight eating nothing but tofu and alfalfa
sprouts if you each too much of them."

How much would be too much?
Dee Flint
2008-07-07 22:14:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by DB
If eating bowls of Sugar flakes or pop tarts for breakfast got me fat, why
would I return to eating that crap once I lost the weight thru better
eating?
What you eat isn't important to weight loss, it's only how much you eat.
Eating the healthiest food in the world will not cause weight loss if you eat
too much of it, and eating junk food will not make you fat unless you eat too
much of it.
Generally the healthy food fills you up better so that it is easier not to
overeat. Unhealthy food leaves your body short of many nutrients and so you
will generally overeat trying to satisfy the body's needs for those
nutrients.

So while calories are the bottom line, it's very difficult to satisfy the
body on junk food. One's body then signals for more food trying to get the
necessary nutrients.
Mxsmanic
2008-07-08 23:26:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dee Flint
Generally the healthy food fills you up better so that it is easier not to
overeat.
It may or it may not. Depends on the food.
Post by Dee Flint
So while calories are the bottom line, it's very difficult to satisfy the
body on junk food. One's body then signals for more food trying to get the
necessary nutrients.
There isn't really any such thing as "junk food." Your body pays very little
attention to the type of food you eat. It manages to deal with anything that
is within spec.
Dee Flint
2008-07-10 23:09:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Dee Flint
Generally the healthy food fills you up better so that it is easier not to
overeat.
It may or it may not. Depends on the food.
I already indicated that when I said "generally".
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Dee Flint
So while calories are the bottom line, it's very difficult to satisfy the
body on junk food. One's body then signals for more food trying to get the
necessary nutrients.
There isn't really any such thing as "junk food." Your body pays very little
attention to the type of food you eat. It manages to deal with anything that
is within spec.
Food with low nutritional value is "junk food". If you do not get enough
vitamin C, for example, you will either get scurvy or your body will drive
you to eat foods with vitamin C. If you've already satisfied your caloric
needs with foods that have minimal nutritional value, then you will have to
overeat on calories to get the required nutrients.
Mxsmanic
2008-07-11 09:25:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dee Flint
Food with low nutritional value is "junk food".
And how is nutritional value defined?
Gymgirl
2012-09-29 21:23:53 UTC
Permalink
"The Master"
Post by The Master
Post by DB
Post by The Master
I've already said that I COULD lose weight. But the moment I stop
counting calories, the moment I stop working my ass off in the gym, it
comes back. How is the success rate of 2 years? 5 years? 10 years?
If you have a temporary solution like a diet where you count calories , the
result will be temporary!
What it all comes down to is a lifestyle in terms of what you are fueling
your body with.
Lifestyle? Ok, what "lifestyle change" must take place? Let me guess,
healthy eating, and exercise. Sorry, but that's exactly what you already
said is a temporary fix... Get the problem? The only way to have long
lasting weight loss is to constantly stick with it. Simply calling it a
"lifestyle change" doesn't alter the fact that it's simply a glorified
diet and exercise plan.
Staying healthy is a lifetime commitment!
We were not designed to sit around and eat shit all day.
If eating bowls of Sugar flakes or pop tarts for breakfast got me fat, why
would I return to eating that crap once I lost the weight thru better
eating?
You are correct on that. We are designed to move. We were born gatherers and hunters. Here is a link to a good article on how we were designed naturally to help understand why when we begin to slow down in life our body does the same thing.

http://choosehealthandhappiness.blogspot.com/2011/04/looking-for-springtime.html
Patrick
2008-07-02 14:05:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Master
Post by DB
Post by The Master
I've already said that I COULD lose weight. But the moment I stop
counting calories, the moment I stop working my ass off in the gym, it
comes back. How is the success rate of 2 years? 5 years? 10 years?
If you have a temporary solution like a diet where you count calories , the
result will be temporary!
What it all comes down to is a lifestyle in terms of what you are fueling
your body with.
Lifestyle? Ok, what "lifestyle change" must take place? Let me guess,
healthy eating, and exercise. Sorry, but that's exactly what you
already said is a temporary fix... Get the problem? The only way to
have long lasting weight loss is to constantly stick with it. Simply
calling it a "lifestyle change" doesn't alter the fact that it's simply
a glorified diet and exercise plan.
I almost hate to jump in here as I am a lurker. Here is the difference.
Instead of eating the 24oz. Porterhouse you have the 12oz one. Instead
of smothering your baked potatoes with 4Tbs of butter and a quarter cup
of sour cream and a quarter cup of cheddar cheese you put 1Tbs of butter
the same of sour cream and cheddar cheese. Instead of eating a pint of
Hagan Daz Coffee ice cream, you eat a cup. This is the lifestyle change.
You can still be satisfied. I used to weigh 285 and now I am 190 and
pretty fit. The one thing I learned with my lifestyle change was this;
My body didn't need everything I was putting into it. This is from a guy
that grew up over weight and was overweight for two thirds of his adult
life. I went from a 42 inch waist to a 34 inch waist. From XXL shirts to
Medium. I'm 44 now and plan on staying where I am for the rest of my
life. The funny thing is, now that I have changed my lifestyle I am
finding that there are no difficulties in maintaining for several years.
Personally I'm happy with me and don't really worry about what other
people are doing with their bodies. If someone asked how I did it, I'll
be happy to tell them, but I really don't expect to see them do anything
with the information.

Peace
--
Patrick

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody
appreciates how difficult it was. - La Rochefoucauld
DB
2008-07-07 05:20:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick
Post by The Master
Lifestyle? Ok, what "lifestyle change" must take place? Let me guess,
healthy eating, and exercise. Sorry, but that's exactly what you already
said is a temporary fix... Get the problem? The only way to have long
lasting weight loss is to constantly stick with it. Simply calling it a
"lifestyle change" doesn't alter the fact that it's simply a glorified
diet and exercise plan.
I almost hate to jump in here as I am a lurker. Here is the difference.
Instead of eating the 24oz. Porterhouse you have the 12oz one. Instead of
smothering your baked potatoes with 4Tbs of butter and a quarter cup of
sour cream and a quarter cup of cheddar cheese you put 1Tbs of butter the
same of sour cream and cheddar cheese. Instead of eating a pint of Hagan
Daz Coffee ice cream, you eat a cup. This is the lifestyle change. You can
still be satisfied. I used to weigh 285 and now I am 190 and pretty fit.
The one thing I learned with my lifestyle change was this; My body didn't
need everything I was putting into it.
Very good point and thanks for telling us about your experience!

I think binging is a problem for most people as they can't get enough until
they feel full 10 minutes later.
Problem is, they stuff 600 to 1000 calories down in one sitting and then
they're ready to gorge again in 4 hours on more empty calories that do them
no good. Even and excess of just 100 calories a day will net 10 lbs in a
year which explains why people gain 30 to 40 extra pounds in their 30's when
they slow down and their metabolism adapts to a slower lifestyle.
Kaz Kylheku
2008-07-07 05:33:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by DB
Problem is, they stuff 600 to 1000 calories down in one sitting and then
they're ready to gorge again in 4 hours on more empty calories that do them
no good. Even and excess of just 100 calories a day will net 10 lbs in a
year which explains why people gain 30 to 40 extra pounds in their 30's when
they slow down and their metabolism adapts to a slower lifestyle.
That is grossly oversimplified. Weight is maintained over
a range of caloric intakes, and that range can be quite broad.

For the above scenario to take place, the 100 calories has to be consumed
above the upper limit of that range. I would argue that if you are eating
at that upper limit, you're already overeating. We should measure
excess from the middle of the range, not from the upper limit.

If you eat like you should, you should be able to increase your intake by
100 kcal per day, and not gain anything.

A 10 pound yearly weight gain requires substantial overeating: perhaps as
much as 500 kcal extra to reach your body's upper limit, and /then/ 100 more.
Mxsmanic
2008-07-07 07:55:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kaz Kylheku
That is grossly oversimplified. Weight is maintained over
a range of caloric intakes, and that range can be quite broad.
False.
Post by Kaz Kylheku
If you eat like you should, you should be able to increase your intake by
100 kcal per day, and not gain anything.
False.
Post by Kaz Kylheku
A 10 pound yearly weight gain requires substantial overeating: perhaps as
much as 500 kcal extra to reach your body's upper limit, and /then/ 100 more.
False. An extra glass of milk every other day is more than sufficient to
produce a ten-pound gain..
Kaz Kylheku
2008-07-07 18:36:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Kaz Kylheku
That is grossly oversimplified. Weight is maintained over
a range of caloric intakes, and that range can be quite broad.
False.
Post by Kaz Kylheku
If you eat like you should, you should be able to increase your intake by
100 kcal per day, and not gain anything.
False.
Post by Kaz Kylheku
A 10 pound yearly weight gain requires substantial overeating: perhaps as
much as 500 kcal extra to reach your body's upper limit, and /then/ 100 more.
False. An extra glass of milk every other day is more than sufficient to
produce a ten-pound gain..
You contradict a large volume of scientific documentation (some of which is
easily googleable), as well as basic human experience.

The body can regulate its metabolic rate in response to energy intake. One
readily observable effect is that overfeeding significantly increases heart
rate.

For instance, there is

_Overfeeding: cardiovascular and metabolic response during continuous formula
infusion in adult humans_, Casper, Matthews & Heymsfield, 1990.

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/52/4/602.pdf

I've easily confirmed in personal experience what is known about this subject.
As a well-trained runner, I have a resting heart rate of about 43-45. I've
seen it drop as low as 38 due to brief decrease in caloric intake, and climb
over 60 when refeeding after a fasting period. The skin temperature varied
similarly. My weight, waist circumference and subjective muscle definition
stay remarkably stable over a wide range of caloric intakes and exercise
volumes.

Though overweight people would love to believe that their condition is the
result of a small, easily correctable error, like consuming merely extra 100
calories per day over small periods, in fact it is the result of gross error,
undoing the effects of which requires quite a radical change.
Robin King
2008-07-07 21:13:50 UTC
Permalink
Pardon the crossposting, but I don't know which group Kaz is posting
from. I've set the follow-up to soc.support.fat-acceptance.
Post by Kaz Kylheku
You contradict a large volume of scientific documentation (some of which is
easily googleable), as well as basic human experience.
The body can regulate its metabolic rate in response to energy
intake. One
Post by Kaz Kylheku
readily observable effect is that overfeeding significantly
increases heart
Post by Kaz Kylheku
rate.
For instance, there is
_Overfeeding: cardiovascular and metabolic response during
continuous formula
Post by Kaz Kylheku
infusion in adult humans_, Casper, Matthews & Heymsfield, 1990.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/52/4/602.pdf
I've easily confirmed in personal experience what is known about this subject.
As a well-trained runner, I have a resting heart rate of about
43-45. I've
Post by Kaz Kylheku
seen it drop as low as 38 due to brief decrease in caloric intake, and climb
over 60 when refeeding after a fasting period. The skin temperature varied
similarly. My weight, waist circumference and subjective muscle definition
stay remarkably stable over a wide range of caloric intakes and exercise
volumes.
Though overweight people would love to believe that their condition is the
result of a small, easily correctable error, like consuming merely extra 100
calories per day over small periods, in fact it is the result of gross error,
undoing the effects of which requires quite a radical change.
As a fat person, I have been telling people for years in ssf-a
that the body takes quite an active role in maintaining its weight
range (often called setpoint). It is not unreasonable that different
bodies adhere to different ranges. Naturally, I get jeered at by
trolls, whether or not I post references, since as a self-confessed
fat person, I am considered de facto untrustworthy or delusional.
You, a runner, have experienced the setpoint phenomenon, so maybe
they'll believe you.

Robin
Mxsmanic
2008-07-08 23:18:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kaz Kylheku
You contradict a large volume of scientific documentation (some of which is
easily googleable), as well as basic human experience.
The body can regulate its metabolic rate in response to energy intake. One
readily observable effect is that overfeeding significantly increases heart
rate.
The durable changes in metabolism are extremely small.
Post by Kaz Kylheku
Though overweight people would love to believe that their condition is the
result of a small, easily correctable error, like consuming merely extra 100
calories per day over small periods, in fact it is the result of gross error,
undoing the effects of which requires quite a radical change.
This is false. Very small amounts of overeating can produce very large
increases in weight in time. You cannot overeat without gaining weight. If
you eat more than you burn, you will always gain weight. Your BMR will not
double or triple or drop by 90%, and it's only a portion of the calories you
burn, anyway.

Fat people can face these facts, or they can stay fat.
DB
2008-07-07 17:52:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kaz Kylheku
For the above scenario to take place, the 100 calories has to be consumed
above the upper limit of that range. I would argue that if you are eating
at that upper limit, you're already overeating.
yes, but people's impression of overeating can be deceiving as they think
about eating half a pizza and then a bucket of ice cream as over eating.

Just one chocolate chip cookie can put you over your limit by 150 calories,
but it's physically small and people are fooled too easily.
Kaz Kylheku
2008-07-07 18:52:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by DB
Post by Kaz Kylheku
For the above scenario to take place, the 100 calories has to be consumed
above the upper limit of that range. I would argue that if you are eating
at that upper limit, you're already overeating.
yes, but people's impression of overeating can be deceiving as they think
about eating half a pizza and then a bucket of ice cream as over eating.
Just one chocolate chip cookie can put you over your limit by 150 calories,
but it's physically small and people are fooled too easily.
A 150 calorie cookie will put you over your limit only if you are at your limit.

Someone who is nowhere near overeating can easily absorb a 150 calorie cookie
without gaining weight.

There are hundreds of millions of people in the world who are slender, and
remain that way all their lives, without applying any conscious external
control such as counting calories. Human body weight is remarkably stable. The
reason for that is that the body compensates for variations in intake. Systems
which are stable with respect to changes in their inputs are that way because
they react in ways which counteract those changes.

We should strive to eat near the lower end of our maintenance range. Doing so
leaves lots of headroom to occasionally indulge in something.

You should be able to /permanently/ add a daily cookie to your present diet
without worrying about any weight gain. If you have no room for a cookie, you
are eating way too damn much.
The Master
2008-07-07 19:01:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kaz Kylheku
There are hundreds of millions of people in the world who are slender, and
remain that way all their lives, without applying any conscious external
control such as counting calories.
And yet there are people who can only lose weight by doing exactly that.
Once they stop "applying any conscious external control such as counting
calories", the weight floods back.
Post by Kaz Kylheku
Human body weight is remarkably stable. The
reason for that is that the body compensates for variations in intake.
The body is remarkably stable for large people also, the only problem is
that it's stable at the "large" setting.
Doug Freyburger
2008-07-08 15:12:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Master
Post by Kaz Kylheku
There are hundreds of millions of people in the world who are slender, and
remain that way all their lives, without applying any conscious external
control such as counting calories.
There are hundreds of millions of people in the world who are heavy,
and
remain that way all there lives, without applying any conscious
external
control such as counting calories.
Post by The Master
And yet there are people who can only lose weight by doing exactly that.
Once they stop "applying any conscious external control such as counting
calories", the weight floods back.
And yet there are prison studies that show there are people who can
only gain weight by doing exactly that. Once they stop "applying any
conscious control" such as deliberately stuffing themselves, the
weight
drops back off.
Post by The Master
Post by Kaz Kylheku
Human body weight is remarkably stable.  The
reason for that is that the body compensates for variations in intake.
The body is remarkably stable for large people also, the only problem is
that it's stable at the "large" setting.
It's the set-point theory and the evidence is completely clear that
it is true. Folks like Mxmanic who thump the calorie drum are trolls
repeating falsehoods.

So, there are methods that can push weight away from a set point
like counting calories - Do it carefully and it can be acheived
without
hunger and without rebound feeding but few dieters are able to limit
the insensity of their dieting and able to control their eating that
exactly.

And there are methods that adjust the set point without hunger -
low fat achieves this for some, low carb achives this for more. But
return to spontaneous food choices and the weight pops right back
to the set point.

Consider this hypothesis (which suggests a low carb solution as
I am a low carber):

Diabetes is a metabolic disorder of the hormones mostly insulin
where the body does not stop sugar from flowing into the blood.
It comes in a form of insufficient insulin and a form of the body
resisting its own insulin. Diabetes can be treated but there is
no known cure in the case of the resistance form and only by a
transplant in the insufficient insulin form. Treatments can include
carefully limiting carb intact, carefully controlling food schedules,
medications or injections.

Obesity is a metabolic disorder of the hormones mostly insulin
where the body does not stop from flowing fat into the fat cells.
It comes in a form of low insulin (best treated with low fat) and a
form of high insulin (best treated with low carb). Obesity can be
treated but there is no known cure - Lap band surgery seems to
cure some but it's still unclear if that's actually treatment not
long term cure. Treatments include various types of diets, meds
or surgery.

Figure out how to change a set point and you become a billionaire.
Until then the best that can be acheived is treatment that does
not trigger hunger. But fall off plan and you head straight back to
your set point.
Mxsmanic
2008-07-08 23:23:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doug Freyburger
Figure out how to change a set point and you become a billionaire.
Figure out how to get people to face reality and you become a trillionaire.
Mxsmanic
2008-07-08 23:21:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kaz Kylheku
A 150 calorie cookie will put you over your limit only if you are at your limit.
People of normal weight are always at their limit. In people of normal
weight, long term calorie consumption is controlled with extraordinarily high
accuracy, ensuring no significant change in weight over time.
Post by Kaz Kylheku
Someone who is nowhere near overeating can easily absorb a 150 calorie cookie
without gaining weight.
False. If you eat more than you burn, you gain weight.
Post by Kaz Kylheku
There are hundreds of millions of people in the world who are slender, and
remain that way all their lives, without applying any conscious external
control such as counting calories.
That's because they have no tendency to overeat.
Post by Kaz Kylheku
Human body weight is remarkably stable.
See above.
Post by Kaz Kylheku
The reason for that is that the body compensates for variations in intake.
No, the reason for it is that the body adjust intake to match requirements.
Post by Kaz Kylheku
We should strive to eat near the lower end of our maintenance range. Doing so
leaves lots of headroom to occasionally indulge in something.
There is no range. There is only a number.
Post by Kaz Kylheku
You should be able to /permanently/ add a daily cookie to your present diet
without worrying about any weight gain. If you have no room for a cookie, you
are eating way too damn much.
If you are of normal, stable weight, and you add a daily cookie to your diet,
you will gain weight (slowly). You'll gain perhaps ten pounds in a year.
Kaz Kylheku
2008-07-09 19:53:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Kaz Kylheku
Someone who is nowhere near overeating can easily absorb a 150 calorie cookie
without gaining weight.
False. If you eat more than you burn, you gain weight.
Pitiful moron, who wrote anything to the contrary?
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Kaz Kylheku
There are hundreds of millions of people in the world who are slender, and
remain that way all their lives, without applying any conscious external
control such as counting calories.
That's because they have no tendency to overeat.
Post by Kaz Kylheku
Human body weight is remarkably stable.
See above.
Post by Kaz Kylheku
The reason for that is that the body compensates for variations in intake.
No, the reason for it is that the body adjust intake to match requirements.
The body doesn't adjust intake; intake is the result of conscious behavior,
which is quite inaccurate. The metabolic response to intake picks up for the
slack, provided that the feeding behavior isn't wildly out of whack.
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Kaz Kylheku
We should strive to eat near the lower end of our maintenance range. Doing so
leaves lots of headroom to occasionally indulge in something.
There is no range. There is only a number.
Twit, why don't you perform a shred of basic research?

Countless studies, animal and human, over the past hundred years have confirmed
that there is indeed a range.

For example here is one, from the early 1960's:

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/78/3/255.pdf

In this experiment, the researchers were able to maintain the body weight of animals such as pigs and rats on a wide range of caloric intakes. Quote from the Summary:

``1. It was shown that weight maintenance can be achieved in rats over
a wide range of caloric intakes.

2. Two pigs were maintained at constant weight with diets providing,
respectively, 243 and 1,180 Cal./day. After 40 days, the
regimens were reversed and body weight was maintained for as similar
period.

3. The difference in caloric intakes could not be accounted for by
differences in digestibility, losses in the urine, storage of depot fat,
nor physical activity.

4. Differences in expired carbon dioxide showed that all the ingested food
was be ing metabolized.

5. It was concluded that food energy may be converted directly into heat.''

This also has some very good reading:

http://www.unu.edu/unupress/food2/uid08e/uid08e00.htm#Contents

In 10.1 Early Studies:

``The classic descriptions are those of NEUMANN in 1902 and GULICK in 1922.
Neumann monitored his own body weight for a year and varied his calorie
intake so that in three major periods during the year he was on 1766,2199
and 2403 kcal per day. On this variable intake his weight remained
essentially constant. It should be noted, however, that the capacity to
maintain weight stability was displayed with energy intakes which were
increased or decreased by only about 15%.''

In 10.2 Prolonged Overfeeding:


``Some short-term overfeeding studies do show a small increase in BMR (e.g.,
GOLDMAN et al., 1975), but the best of the "old" studies on metabolic
adaptation to overfeeding are those conducted by SIMS (1976) on Vermont
prisoners and volunteers. In some of these overfeeding studies with mixed
meals, a remarkable change in energy homeostasis is claimed. The men chosen
for the study were thin individuals without a family history of obesity.
Continuous monitoring of food intake and physical activity over a 40-week
study-period showed that some men initially ingested approximately 3000
kcal/d, but after overfeeding for months with 6-8000 kcal/d they had gained
only 6 kg and now required 5750 kcal to maintain this excess weight. This
adaptation occurred despite the men having initially engaged in quite
strenuous physical activity on the 3000 kcal diet but then reducing exercise
to an absolute minimum in an unsuccessful attempt to become obese.''

Cite something to back up your claims, or fuck the hell off!
Dee Flint
2008-07-07 22:00:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Master
Post by DB
Post by The Master
I've already said that I COULD lose weight. But the moment I stop
counting calories, the moment I stop working my ass off in the gym, it
comes back. How is the success rate of 2 years? 5 years? 10 years?
If you have a temporary solution like a diet where you count calories , the
result will be temporary!
What it all comes down to is a lifestyle in terms of what you are fueling
your body with.
Lifestyle? Ok, what "lifestyle change" must take place? Let me guess,
healthy eating, and exercise. Sorry, but that's exactly what you already
said is a temporary fix... Get the problem? The only way to have long
lasting weight loss is to constantly stick with it. Simply calling it a
"lifestyle change" doesn't alter the fact that it's simply a glorified
diet and exercise plan.
If you return to what you were doing before, you will get what you got
before. We can choose to control our food intake (quantity and type) for
life and be a healthy weight. Or we can choose not to control our
consumption and thus gain weight and eventually suffer from it.
The Master
2008-07-08 14:25:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dee Flint
If you return to what you were doing before, you will get what you got
before. We can choose to control our food intake (quantity and type) for
life and be a healthy weight. Or we can choose not to control our
consumption and thus gain weight and eventually suffer from it.
And that's exactly why diets don't work. It's hard work constantly
counting calories, constantly measuring and making sure. Yes, you can go
on a life long diet and keep the weight off. But as I have said time and
time and time again, that's NOT life, it's torture.

That would be a longer quantity of life, but the quality would actaully
decrease.

I'd rather be fat... Seriously...
DB
2008-07-08 17:17:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Master
And that's exactly why diets don't work. It's hard work constantly
counting calories, constantly measuring and making sure. Yes, you can go
on a life long diet and keep the weight off. But as I have said time and
time and time again, that's NOT life, it's torture.
I'd rather be fat... Seriously...
You are free to be fat along with all the many complications that evolve
from that!

You can monitor your food intake now, or monitor the pills and injections
later along with having to monitor food intake as well.
The Master
2008-07-08 17:21:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by DB
You are free to be fat along with all the many complications that evolve
from that!
Great. Then we are in agreement.
Post by DB
You can monitor your food intake now, or monitor the pills and injections
later along with having to monitor food intake as well.
*laugh* Considering my normal colesterol and blood sugar levels, I'll
gladly agree to your non-point.
DB
2008-07-08 19:50:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Master
*laugh* Considering my normal colesterol and blood sugar levels, I'll
gladly agree to your non-point.
BTw, what age are you now?
Mxsmanic
2008-07-08 23:25:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by DB
BTw, what age are you now?
Quite a few people can be overweight all their lives without suffering any
significant complications.
Dee Flint
2008-07-10 23:06:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by DB
BTw, what age are you now?
Quite a few people can be overweight all their lives without suffering any
significant complications.
Unfortunately one cannot know that ahead of time. It is only after the fact
that one knows whether they will or will not have issues.
Mxsmanic
2008-07-11 09:25:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dee Flint
Unfortunately one cannot know that ahead of time. It is only after the fact
that one knows whether they will or will not have issues.
True, although heredity can provide a few clues (if others in the family are
obese and healthy/unhealthy, you might end up the same if you're fat as well).
Robin King
2008-07-09 05:40:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Master
Post by DB
You are free to be fat along with all the many complications that evolve
from that!
Great. Then we are in agreement.
Amen. I'd rather go straight for health - any weight loss is
secondary. There is nothing in fat acceptance that is against healthy
eating and exercise. In fact, a fat person engaged in exercise is
more likely to get jeers from fat-haters.
Post by The Master
Post by DB
You can monitor your food intake now, or monitor the pills and injections
later along with having to monitor food intake as well.
Wouldn't that be the case for people at any weight if they
live to be old enough?
Post by The Master
*laugh* Considering my normal colesterol and blood sugar levels, I'll
gladly agree to your non-point.
(follow-ups to ssf-a)

Robin
Mxsmanic
2008-07-09 05:55:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin King
I'd rather go straight for health - any weight loss is
secondary.
Weight loss is the lion's part of health improvement for the obese.
Post by Robin King
There is nothing in fat acceptance that is against healthy
eating and exercise.
Since obesity is unhealthy, "healthy eating" and exercise are of littel
importance if a person remains obese. Obesity is the major health risk.
Post by Robin King
In fact, a fat person engaged in exercise is more likely
to get jeers from fat-haters.
Only until the exercise burns off the fat. Which is better: listening to
jeers for a few months or dying 20 years before your time of heart disease?
Post by Robin King
Wouldn't that be the case for people at any weight if they
live to be old enough?
No. People who are not obese tend not to develop the many disorders
associated with obesity.
Robin King
2008-07-09 19:55:35 UTC
Permalink
(follow-ups to ssf-a)
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Robin King
I'd rather go straight for health - any weight loss is
secondary.
Weight loss is the lion's part of health improvement for the obese.
Nope. The habits acquired, which may result in various
amounts of weight change for different people, are way more important
than the weight loss. The method matters much more, or you might as
well have wls and/or take diet pills.
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Robin King
There is nothing in fat acceptance that is against healthy
eating and exercise.
Since obesity is unhealthy,
Can you show that moderate obesity is unhealthy regardless of one's
eating or exercise habits, and not counting social stigma?

"healthy eating" and exercise are of littel
Post by Mxsmanic
importance if a person remains obese. Obesity is the major health risk.
This is where we disagree. But I can understand why you think
so, since everything negative that happens to a fat person is blamed
on their fat.
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Robin King
In fact, a fat person engaged in exercise is more likely
to get jeers from fat-haters.
Only until the exercise burns off the fat.
If the onlookers really hate fat so much, why wouldn't they
encourage a fat person to exercise? What's the point of the jeers?

Which is better: listening to
Post by Mxsmanic
jeers for a few months
A few months? Fat people may get jeered at for entire lifetimes.
That is not conducive to good health.
Post by Mxsmanic
or dying 20 years before your time of heart disease?
20 years?? Fat women live at least as long as average-weight
men, and I don't believe there's a 20 year difference there.
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Robin King
Wouldn't that be the case for people at any weight if they
live to be old enough?
No. People who are not obese tend not to develop the many disorders
associated with obesity.
How do you know it isn't the disorder that causes obesity
rather than the other way around? Association doesn't mean causality.
Cancedr is associated with weight loss, yet you wouldn't say thinness
causes cancer, would you?

Robin
Mxsmanic
2008-07-09 22:56:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin King
Can you show that moderate obesity is unhealthy regardless of one's
eating or exercise habits, and not counting social stigma?
It depends on what you mean by moderate obesity. I really don't care, though;
if people want to be fat, that's their problem, not mine.
Post by Robin King
If the onlookers really hate fat so much, why wouldn't they
encourage a fat person to exercise?
Some of them do, right here in this newsgroup, even. But the fat people
always have a boatload of "proof" as to why they cannot possibly lose weight
by cutting calories alone, or why they cannot possibly be overeating as much
as they appear to be when one adds up the calories.
Post by Robin King
A few months? Fat people may get jeered at for entire lifetimes.
That is not conducive to good health.
They can always lose weight. At least they have a choice; people jeered at
for other reasons often don't.
Post by Robin King
20 years?? Fat women live at least as long as average-weight
men, and I don't believe there's a 20 year difference there.
There's a gender difference. Poor people working in salt mines don't live as
long as rich people living in comfort, too.
Post by Robin King
How do you know it isn't the disorder that causes obesity
rather than the other way around?
Because only overeating can cause obesity.
Robin King
2008-07-10 04:38:55 UTC
Permalink
(follow-ups to ssf-a)
Post by Mxsmanic
Some of them do, right here in this newsgroup, even. But the fat people
always have a boatload of "proof" as to why they cannot possibly lose weight
by cutting calories alone, or why they cannot possibly be overeating as much
as they appear to be when one adds up the calories.
Who are "they"? Fat people are only all alike if you define
them only by their fat.
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Robin King
A few months? Fat people may get jeered at for entire lifetimes.
That is not conducive to good health.
They can always lose weight. At least they have a choice; people jeered at
for other reasons often don't.
Religious people can always change their religion. People with
STDs can always stop having sex. Black people can take whatever it is
that Michael Jackson takes to lighten his skin. East Asians can get
their epicanthic folds surgically removed to resemble Caucasians more.
Is it okay to jeer at these people because they can change whatever
makes them different from you?
I've said many times that I have no control over my weight.
None! I have some control over my eating and exercise habits. How
they affect my weight is out of my conscious hands.
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Robin King
How do you know it isn't the disorder that causes obesity
rather than the other way around?
Because only overeating can cause obesity.
You appear to be defining "overeating" as "how a fat person
eats".Your statement is tautological.

Robin
The Master
2008-07-10 15:17:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Some of them do, right here in this newsgroup, even. But the fat people
always have a boatload of "proof" as to why they cannot possibly lose weight
by cutting calories alone, or why they cannot possibly be overeating as much
as they appear to be when one adds up the calories.
Really? That's strange. I for one have always said that I COULD lose
weight, but the cost in doing so far outweighs the reward.

You see, that's why I'm posting out of the soc.support.fat-acceptance
group, rather then the diet groups. I do not have the desire to lose
weight, so I'm not willing to put much work into it. Am I looking for a
magic pill? Probably, because swallowing a pill is about all the time I'm
willing to put into it at this point.

Now, if I had a reason to want to lose weight, like a major life altering
event, such as the majority of news stories that talk about massive weight
loss, the reward would outweigh the cost, and I'd be willing to do it.
However right now, sorry but I'd rather be fat.
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Robin King
A few months? Fat people may get jeered at for entire lifetimes.
That is not conducive to good health.
They can always lose weight. At least they have a choice; people jeered at
for other reasons often don't.
Nice rationalization of size bigotry.
Kaz Kylheku
2008-07-08 20:23:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Master
Post by Dee Flint
If you return to what you were doing before, you will get what you got
before. We can choose to control our food intake (quantity and type) for
life and be a healthy weight. Or we can choose not to control our
consumption and thus gain weight and eventually suffer from it.
And that's exactly why diets don't work. It's hard work constantly
counting calories, constantly measuring and making sure.
I don't measure or count anything, yet I have no trouble staying slim, even
when taking a break from exercise. Getting slim required effort, but staying
slim is incredibly easy.

Counting and measuring isn't required. Exercise isn't required. Only,
reasonable eating. That's it.

A combination of strict diet and intense exercise is for those who want to see
sharply defined abdominals. A lot of the material about dieting you find
online is written by people who are into that, with an obvious bias. It's not
just a bias, but a hidden motivation. If you are selling something, it helps to
make people feel bad about themselves---even those people who should not. So
to do that, you have to idealize the highest possible goals.

But if your goals fall short of having a ripped body, things become a heck of a
lot easier. You can ignore the fitness trainers who are pushing their
various six-pack-abs programs.

If you believe that staying slim requires you to eat boiled chicken breasts
with steamed asparagus for the rest of your life and exercising your ass off,
it sounds like you've been suckered by reading that type of material!
You don't seem to realize that this is for people who are obsessed with
optimizing their body image.

If you hate how your body looks at 9% body fat, then yes, it's tortuous
exercise and boiled chicken breasts with steamed vegetables for you.
Post by The Master
Yes, you can go
on a life long diet and keep the weight off.
That is false. In fact, there are hundreds of millions of slim people in
the world who have never been on any kind of diet, and who have never
dedicated themselves to regular exercise, beyond ordinary daily activity.

Are you getting larger now? If you are not, then if you were slim, you could
stay that way eating about as much food as you do now.
Post by The Master
time and time again, that's NOT life, it's torture.
The difficulty is temporary.

By the way I can guess from your e-mail address that you like Dr. Who?

I watched through more than half of the complete Tom Baker series earlier this
year. See, slim people who eat right and keep fit still have time for TV
series.
Mxsmanic
2008-07-08 23:24:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Master
And that's exactly why diets don't work. It's hard work constantly
counting calories, constantly measuring and making sure. Yes, you can go
on a life long diet and keep the weight off. But as I have said time and
time and time again, that's NOT life, it's torture.
That depends on the individual. And a change in lifestyle often includes a
change in activity level or calorie consumption, which in turn causes a change
in weight.
Post by The Master
I'd rather be fat... Seriously...
You can be fat. You just won't live as long (probably). But losing a few
years of life in exchange for more enjoyment of life may be your choice.
DB
2008-07-09 01:45:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by The Master
I'd rather be fat... Seriously...
You can be fat. You just won't live as long (probably). But losing a few
years of life in exchange for more enjoyment of life may be your choice.
When we say Fat, how much weight are we talking?

Is a 42 waist really desirable, why not work to get a 38 waist which is
comfortable and not hard to achieve.

men with larger than 42 waists begin to have many troubles in their early
40's.

Who wants to spend the last part of their years having to use many aids and
supplements to get around or live on permanent disability? Living in pain
ridden body for the last 30 years is torture!!!
Mxsmanic
2008-07-09 05:57:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by DB
When we say Fat, how much weight are we talking?
That depends on the individual, but fat enough to endanger health
significantly.
Post by DB
Is a 42 waist really desirable, why not work to get a 38 waist which is
comfortable and not hard to achieve.
For everyone there is a cost/benefit ratio to consider.
Post by DB
men with larger than 42 waists begin to have many troubles in their early
40's.
There are no magic numbers.
The Master
2008-07-09 14:45:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by DB
Who wants to spend the last part of their years having to use many aids and
supplements to get around or live on permanent disability? Living in pain
ridden body for the last 30 years is torture!!!
That's a rather big assumption there DB...
Dee Flint
2008-07-10 23:14:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Master
Post by DB
Who wants to spend the last part of their years having to use many aids and
supplements to get around or live on permanent disability? Living in pain
ridden body for the last 30 years is torture!!!
That's a rather big assumption there DB...
But who would want to take that gamble when there are so many health issues
related to weight?
The Master
2008-07-11 17:42:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dee Flint
Post by The Master
That's a rather big assumption there DB...
But who would want to take that gamble when there are so many health issues
related to weight?
ROTFLMAO!!! Do you ALWAYS live your life in fear?

1) Are you Christian because "oh no, what if it's right, I better do it
just to be safe"?

2) Most accidents occure within 5 miles of your home, so do you only shop
at stores 6 or more miles away?

The number one cause of death is life. Live in constant fear of death,
and you have no life to want to live for.
Dee Flint
2008-07-13 00:03:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Master
Post by Dee Flint
Post by The Master
That's a rather big assumption there DB...
But who would want to take that gamble when there are so many health issues
related to weight?
ROTFLMAO!!! Do you ALWAYS live your life in fear?
1) Are you Christian because "oh no, what if it's right, I better do it
just to be safe"?
2) Most accidents occure within 5 miles of your home, so do you only shop
at stores 6 or more miles away?
The number one cause of death is life. Live in constant fear of death,
and you have no life to want to live for.
Reducing things to the absurd is not particularly relevant.

A wise man does not fear everything. He looks at available data and selects
the risks that are worth taking and eliminates those that are not.
Lady Veteran
2008-07-21 13:14:59 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 20:03:21 -0400, "Dee Flint"
Post by Dee Flint
Post by The Master
Post by Dee Flint
Post by The Master
That's a rather big assumption there DB...
But who would want to take that gamble when there are so many health issues
related to weight?
ROTFLMAO!!! Do you ALWAYS live your life in fear?
1) Are you Christian because "oh no, what if it's right, I better do it
just to be safe"?
2) Most accidents occure within 5 miles of your home, so do you only shop
at stores 6 or more miles away?
The number one cause of death is life. Live in constant fear of death,
and you have no life to want to live for.
Reducing things to the absurd is not particularly relevant.
A wise man does not fear everything. He looks at available data and selects
the risks that are worth taking and eliminates those that are not.
A wise man takes care of his home and family and his own affairs. He
does not poke around where his opinion is not welcome.

It is not absurd to want to be left alone.

LV-posted in SSFA

"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."

---Sympathy for the Devil-The Rolling Stones
--------------------------------------------
"A fanatic cannot change his mind and will not
change the subject."

---Winston Churchill
----------------------------------------------
Tired of being harassed on Usenet? Join my group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/antiCHU
"I am mad as hell and I will not take it anymore!"

---Network
Mary Jackson
2008-07-21 17:53:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lady Veteran
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 20:03:21 -0400, "Dee Flint"
Post by Dee Flint
A wise man does not fear everything. He looks at available data and selects
the risks that are worth taking and eliminates those that are not.
A wise man takes care of his home and family and his own affairs. He
does not poke around where his opinion is not welcome.
It is not absurd to want to be left alone.
LV-posted in SSFA
Hey there Hypocrite.
Why are you always bugging in and taking issue with other peoples
opinions. Telling them that they are wrong and you are right.

Trying to diminish their character and hurling vulgar obscenities at
anyone who dares to hold an opinion that differs from yours.

Your motto appears to be "Don't do as I do, Do as I say!"

Its no small wonder that you cannot hold a job very long.

Mary Jackson




** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Lady Veteran
2008-07-21 23:14:09 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:53:21 -0700, Mary Jackson
Post by Mary Jackson
Post by Lady Veteran
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 20:03:21 -0400, "Dee Flint"
Post by Dee Flint
A wise man does not fear everything. He looks at available data and selects
the risks that are worth taking and eliminates those that are not.
A wise man takes care of his home and family and his own affairs. He
does not poke around where his opinion is not welcome.
It is not absurd to want to be left alone.
LV-posted in SSFA
Hey there Hypocrite.
When you find the definition-you should have your picture right next
to the definition.

Do you have a job?
Post by Mary Jackson
Why are you always bugging in and taking issue with other peoples
opinions.
Why are you butting in when I was wasn't talking to you.
Post by Mary Jackson
Telling them that they are wrong and you are right.
Why do you like to stick your nose in where you are not welcome?
Post by Mary Jackson
Trying to diminish their character and hurling vulgar obscenities at
anyone who dares to hold an opinion that differs from yours.
Wanting to be left alone is a real affront to a brain stem like you. I
forgot. I am diminishing your purpose in life and I guess I offended
you.

Tough shit, pissy. Go bother someone else.
Post by Mary Jackson
Your motto appears to be "Don't do as I do, Do as I say!"
You motto appears to be "If the Foo shits, I'll wear it."
Post by Mary Jackson
Its no small wonder that you cannot hold a job very long.
It should be when you and your fellow shits abuse services meant for
people in repressed countries to get communication to their loved
ones. Your cloaks are going away and you will have to actually be
ACCOUNTABLE for your pathetic existence.

What do you think about that, whiney?
Post by Mary Jackson
Mary Jackson
Grow some testicles, Johnny, and go bother someone else.

LV-posted in SSFA
"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."

---Sympathy for the Devil-The Rolling Stones
--------------------------------------------
"A fanatic cannot change his mind and will not
change the subject."

---Winston Churchill
----------------------------------------------
Tired of being harassed on Usenet? Join my group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/antiCHU
"I am mad as hell and I will not take it anymore!"

---Network
Mary Jackson
2008-07-21 23:59:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lady Veteran
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:53:21 -0700, Mary Jackson
Post by Mary Jackson
Post by Lady Veteran
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 20:03:21 -0400, "Dee Flint"
Post by Dee Flint
A wise man does not fear everything. He looks at available data and selects
the risks that are worth taking and eliminates those that are not.
A wise man takes care of his home and family and his own affairs. He
does not poke around where his opinion is not welcome.
It is not absurd to want to be left alone.
LV-posted in SSFA
Hey there Hypocrite.
When you find the definition-you should have your picture right next
to the definition.
Do you have a job?
Post by Mary Jackson
Why are you always bugging in and taking issue with other peoples
opinions.
Why are you butting in when I was wasn't talking to you.
Post by Mary Jackson
Telling them that they are wrong and you are right.
Why do you like to stick your nose in where you are not welcome?
Post by Mary Jackson
Trying to diminish their character and hurling vulgar obscenities at
anyone who dares to hold an opinion that differs from yours.
Wanting to be left alone is a real affront to a brain stem like you. I
forgot. I am diminishing your purpose in life and I guess I offended
you.
Tough shit, pissy. Go bother someone else.
Post by Mary Jackson
Your motto appears to be "Don't do as I do, Do as I say!"
You motto appears to be "If the Foo shits, I'll wear it."
Post by Mary Jackson
Its no small wonder that you cannot hold a job very long.
It should be when you and your fellow shits abuse services meant for
people in repressed countries to get communication to their loved
ones. Your cloaks are going away and you will have to actually be
ACCOUNTABLE for your pathetic existence.
What do you think about that, whiney?
Post by Mary Jackson
Mary Jackson
Grow some testicles, Johnny, and go bother someone else.
Alright folks, you can ignore this posting from some unreal person
posting from Motzarella.org At least this is the stance that LV has
taken many times in the past when trying to evade accurate
observations of her aberrant behavior by other astute posters.

It came via motzarella.org so according to her past statements it
should be ignored.

Therefore it was originated by an unreal troll.
That unreal person was also trying to abuse service meant for people
from repressed countries. HARDY HA! HA! HA!.

You do need to get some new writers. The wordsmith that you are now
using does not make the grade.

Damn, Blobbie, you become more deranged by the day.

You were certainly most deserving of the Kook awards you won. In
other words you won them " Fair and Square"

If there is an award for NG Court Jester you are at the top of the
list for that one as well.

Mary Jackson
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Lady Veteran
2008-07-22 03:20:15 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:59:51 -0700, Mary Jackson
Post by Mary Jackson
Post by Lady Veteran
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:53:21 -0700, Mary Jackson
Post by Mary Jackson
Post by Lady Veteran
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 20:03:21 -0400, "Dee Flint"
Post by Dee Flint
A wise man does not fear everything. He looks at available data and selects
the risks that are worth taking and eliminates those that are not.
A wise man takes care of his home and family and his own affairs. He
does not poke around where his opinion is not welcome.
It is not absurd to want to be left alone.
LV-posted in SSFA
Hey there Hypocrite.
When you find the definition-you should have your picture right next
to the definition.
Do you have a job?
Post by Mary Jackson
Why are you always bugging in and taking issue with other peoples
opinions.
Why are you butting in when I was wasn't talking to you.
Post by Mary Jackson
Telling them that they are wrong and you are right.
Why do you like to stick your nose in where you are not welcome?
Post by Mary Jackson
Trying to diminish their character and hurling vulgar obscenities at
anyone who dares to hold an opinion that differs from yours.
Wanting to be left alone is a real affront to a brain stem like you. I
forgot. I am diminishing your purpose in life and I guess I offended
you.
Tough shit, pissy. Go bother someone else.
Post by Mary Jackson
Your motto appears to be "Don't do as I do, Do as I say!"
You motto appears to be "If the Foo shits, I'll wear it."
Post by Mary Jackson
Its no small wonder that you cannot hold a job very long.
It should be when you and your fellow shits abuse services meant for
people in repressed countries to get communication to their loved
ones. Your cloaks are going away and you will have to actually be
ACCOUNTABLE for your pathetic existence.
What do you think about that, whiney?
Post by Mary Jackson
Mary Jackson
Grow some testicles, Johnny, and go bother someone else.
Alright folks, you can ignore this posting from some unreal person
posting from Motzarella.org
You and your fellow brain stems would not ignore me if I had a dead
cat tied around my neck and rang your doorbell.

The difference is, not that I would expect your stupidity to grasp the
concept, you and your fellow mouth breathers claim to know who I am.
On the other hand you claim that I don't know who you are.

Therefore I think I have a better edge on declaring what to ignore.
You are not real to me but I am very real to you.

Can you grasp that, pissy?
Post by Mary Jackson
At least this is the stance that LV has
taken many times in the past when trying to evade accurate
observations of her aberrant behavior by other astute posters.
If you are astute then Einstein was a dunce.
Post by Mary Jackson
It came via motzarella.org so according to her past statements it
should be ignored.
So ignore it shithead. You can becuase you addicted to me and your
attempts to hurt me. You like to try and inflict pain.

You are a sadistic, whiney, pissy, piece of trash, and no expensive
cologne will disguise your stench.

So ignore me already....<tapping foot>
Post by Mary Jackson
Therefore it was originated by an unreal troll.
Nice that you have acknowledged your main goal in life-to troll me.
Post by Mary Jackson
That unreal person was also trying to abuse service meant for people
from repressed countries. HARDY HA! HA! HA!.
No. Motzarella and aoie.org was developed by someone that thinks
unreal idiots like you have a right to poke sticks at people who know
how to call your bull shit.
Post by Mary Jackson
You do need to get some new writers. The wordsmith that you are now
using does not make the grade.
Of course not. It has been infested by brain stems.
Post by Mary Jackson
Damn, Blobbie, you become more deranged by the day.
Damn fuckwit-you are becoming more delusional that you are human by
the day.
Post by Mary Jackson
You were certainly most deserving of the Kook awards you won. In
other words you won them " Fair and Square"
You are a classic example of why abortions should be legal all over
the world.
Post by Mary Jackson
If there is an award for NG Court Jester you are at the top of the
list for that one as well.
If there was an award for dead fuck walking you would get it based on
your smell alone.
Post by Mary Jackson
Mary Jackson
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
This piece of shit is going in the vermin file.

LV-posted from SSFA

"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."

---Sympathy for the Devil-The Rolling Stones
--------------------------------------------
"A fanatic cannot change his mind and will not
change the subject."

---Winston Churchill
----------------------------------------------
Tired of being harassed on Usenet? Join my group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/antiCHU
"I am mad as hell and I will not take it anymore!"

---Network
SneakyP
2008-07-21 23:03:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lady Veteran
It is not absurd to want to be left alone.
Says the yappy dog pestering Pwn3rZ for attention.

Hear doggi doggi dogggiiii

::fling..............'plop'::
--
SneakyP
To reply: newsgroup only, what's posted in ng stays in ng.

Some choose to swim in the potty bowl of nan-ae rather than flush it
down :0)
The Master
2008-07-09 14:43:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
That depends on the individual. And a change in lifestyle often includes a
change in activity level or calorie consumption,
And that's why I called it a glorified diet and exercise plan.
Robin King
2008-07-09 05:40:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Master
Post by Dee Flint
If you return to what you were doing before, you will get what you got
before. We can choose to control our food intake (quantity and type) for
life and be a healthy weight.
Yes we can, and sometimes it's way outside what the weight
charts say it ought to be. That's why some people do such drastic
things to take off every possible ounce.

Or we can choose not to control our
Post by The Master
Post by Dee Flint
consumption and thus gain weight and eventually suffer from it.
I don't find that. If I can eat what I want, I don't crave
things, and my weight settles at a particular point, or a range of a
very few pounds. I don't keep gaining and gaining.
Post by The Master
And that's exactly why diets don't work. It's hard work constantly
counting calories, constantly measuring and making sure Yes, you can
go
Post by The Master
on a life long diet and keep the weight off. But as I have said time and
time and time again, that's NOT life, it's torture.
And not only can you do all that, you can do it and still be
considered self-indulgent and too fat and whatnot.
Post by The Master
That would be a longer quantity of life, but the quality would
actaully
Post by The Master
decrease.
I'd rather be fat... Seriously...
Robin
unknown
2008-07-09 15:43:50 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 05:40:09 GMT, "Robin King"
Post by Dee Flint
Post by The Master
Post by Dee Flint
If you return to what you were doing before, you will get what you
got
Post by The Master
Post by Dee Flint
before. We can choose to control our food intake (quantity and
type) for
Post by The Master
Post by Dee Flint
life and be a healthy weight.
Yes we can, and sometimes it's way outside what the weight
charts say it ought to be. That's why some people do such drastic
things to take off every possible ounce.
Or we can choose not to control our
Post by The Master
Post by Dee Flint
consumption and thus gain weight and eventually suffer from it.
I don't find that. If I can eat what I want, I don't crave
things, and my weight settles at a particular point, or a range of a
very few pounds. I don't keep gaining and gaining.
Are you saying that you present day weight is at or very near what is
was 10 to 15 years ago?

Joe
Post by Dee Flint
Post by The Master
And that's exactly why diets don't work. It's hard work constantly
counting calories, constantly measuring and making sure Yes, you can
go
Post by The Master
on a life long diet and keep the weight off. But as I have said
time and
Post by The Master
time and time again, that's NOT life, it's torture.
And not only can you do all that, you can do it and still be
considered self-indulgent and too fat and whatnot.
Post by The Master
That would be a longer quantity of life, but the quality would
actaully
Post by The Master
decrease.
I'd rather be fat... Seriously...
Robin
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